Outed and then driven to suicide.

[icehorse]

Well, people virtue signal as a response to group dynamics. It's the same reason people fly flags, which is a form of virtue signaling. If a person is a "warrior for social justice," I would suggest that their cause, even if done for social points, is good given social justice is working towards equity.

I agree that SJWs are usually well intended. But the devil is in the details. Can you explain what you mean when you say "equity"? Is it the same as equality or something different.

Rowling wrote a book series that a lot of folks identified deeply with that had characters that were outcasts or stigmatized (though that was problematic even in the series). This amplified any kind of suggestion from her that she was against something that folks also identified deeply with. Hence, the amplified response.

That's interesting. Initially she was a target for the far right, and then she became a target for the lefties. (BTW, I'm not attached to any particular label for the SJW / VS set of ideas we're discussing. If you have a better term, lmk.)

Recently I asked everyone on this forum if they could explain exactly what she said that made her a target for the lefties. A few posters pointed to a few tweets of hers, but on one could explain why the tweets were actually transphobic. The best I can tell is that refused to repeat the exact trans activist chant she was told to repeat?

So you are suggesting trans activists are just attention seekers? What about the history of violence, legislation, and social stigma against transfolks? Why do you think they would ignore that?

I wouldn't put it in such black and white terms. Of course there is a spectrum of people and behaviors we're talking about.

As for the struggles of trans people, I agree that they are real and ought to be fixed. I just think that many of the solutions we see on offer are destructive and divisive. I suspect that some of the TAs have wider "burn it all down" goals (common with lefties), and trans activism is seen as a good vehicle to achieve those ends.

For example, much of the TA playbook is exactly Orwellian doublethink.

 

[icehorse]

"Virtue signaling" as an epithet should be reserved
for obvious insincerity....not used to glibly dismiss
another person's views.

Most of my attackers on this thread have trotted out a barrage of fallacy arguments. These are posters who I know thru experience know better.

 

[Father Heathen]

examples of which would be.. ?

Portraying both transwomen and drag queens as sexual predators, even though it's usually church leaders, LEOs, politicians, etc. who end up in the news for such crimes. Why aren't people picketing Churches for the sake of children, if that was their sincere concern?

 

[icehorse]

You're a legend in your own mind.

Your team has done NOTHING except wring its hands. How very compassionate

 

[anna.]

From what I'm reading they're a conservative publication, so they're probably patting themselves on the back over how things transpired.

Steve Bannon calling it a "fantastic site" says everything. The 1819 editor is formerly from Breitbart and Tucker Carlson.

 

[icehorse]

You said earlier:

Let's start by not propagating the sort of transphobic propaganda that exacerbates such cruelty.

and i said: examples of which would be.. ?

Portraying both transwomen and drag queens as sexual predators, even though it's usually church leaders, LEOs, politicians, etc. who end up in the news for such crimes. Why aren't people picketing Churches for the sake of children, if that was their sincere concern?

Okay, I have not done that. My entire criticism has been leveled at activists, and even then I have not portrayed them as predators.

 

[Father Heathen]

Steve Bannon calling it a "fantastic site" says everything. The 1819 editor is formerly from Breitbart and Tucker Carlson.

Yuck.

 

[Father Heathen]

You said earlier:

and i said: examples of which would be.. ?



Okay, I have not done that. My entire criticism has been leveled at activists, and even then I have not portrayed them as predators.

Your very first post in this thread implied that ciswomen are endangered by transwomen taking a **** within the same facilities.

 

[icehorse]

We have to convince certain people that everyone has the freedom to express themselves as they see fit.
That their prejudices and expectations, and insecurities and repression, are the problem. Not trans people nor their demands to be treated equitably and respectfully.

And you think screaming at people for imagined slights is a good approach to achieve this goal?

I agree with what JKR said:

Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.

But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?

 

[icehorse]

Your very first post in this thread implied that ciswomen are endangered by transwomen taking a **** within the same facilities.

Have you and I not discussed this on several other threads? My position has not changed. I do not believe that trans people are any more violent than the rest of the population. My concern continues to be NORMALIZING the occurrence of people who look like men going into women's safe spaces. The number of people identifying as trans has exploded in the last few years. Many of them do not bother to look like women. So they are indistinguishable from men who are predators. It is a bad idea to NORMALIZE people who look like men going into women's safe spaces.

Seriously, you might not agree with me, but after all this time do you really not understand that point?

 

[F1fan]

Now what prejudice would that be? Not something you're guessing at, something I've actually said.

As I, and others, have explained, it is your dislike and prejudice against trans people as a category. I have been part of numerous threads and your dislike for trans people is quite aggressive. I suspect you may not see it in your own views which is what prejudice can be in those who can't self-reflect on their own beliefs and judgments. Racism is a similar habit of thought, it is so ingrained in belief that it can't be reflected on as a problem and liability.

I think I've demonstrated more compassion in this thread than you have.

Towards some categories of people, like women. But not for trans people. Your compassion for women goes so far as to target ytrans people and punish them for being who they are ONLY because a few incidents of men taking advantage of tolerant bathroom access has happened.

 

[icehorse]

You've not even actually defined activists as anything more than boogeymen.
Now, consider this. Your behavior is part of the problem. Your behaviors refuse to mind their own business. Your expectations demand that trans be treated as second class citizens who are subject to separate but "equal." You behaviors also absolutely refuse to acknowledge the real life problems and consequences your behaviors lead to, such as ciswomen getting targetted by transphobes such as yourself and also leading up to suicide, such as in the OP you refuse to discuss because it makes you and your nonsensical rubbish look very bad.

And you - quite transparently - made all that **** up.

 

[icehorse]

As I, and others, have explained, it is your dislike and prejudice against trans people as a category. I have been part of numerous threads and your dislike for trans people is quite aggressive. I suspect you may not see it in your own views which is what prejudice can be in those who can't self-reflect on their own beliefs and judgments. Racism is a similar habit of thought, it is so ingrained in belief that it can't be reflected on as a problem and liability.

All I can guess is that you've drunk so much woke kool-aid that you cannot think clearly when presented with even the slightest criticism of the trans activist agenda.

As I have said countless times, I have nothing against trans people - see the JKR quote from above. My ENTIRE beef is with many aspects of the trans activist agenda.

Trans people are not the same as the trans activist agenda.

 

[icehorse]

Towards some categories of people, like women. But not for trans people. Your compassion for women goes so far as to target ytrans people and punish them for being who they are ONLY because a few incidents of men taking advantage of tolerant bathroom access has happened.

You need to start thinking more deeply than what sound bites can convey.

The current trans activist idea is a zero-sum solution. I have no interest in punishing anyone. I just think we can find win-win solutions.

 

[F1fan]

You said earlier:

and i said: examples of which would be.. ?



Okay, I have not done that. My entire criticism has been leveled at activists, and even then I have not portrayed them as predators.

So your criticism is HOW the activists are doigng their work, or FOR what they are fighting for?

IF you are truly compassionate as you claim then you will at least not criticize trans activists for fighting for their rights, yes?

So then, WHAT is your direct criticism of trans activists?

 

[Revoltingest]

Most of my attackers on this thread have trotted out a barrage of fallacy arguments. These are posters who I know thru experience know better.

Some personalities inspire this.
But I see the fallacies being from your end....
- Trans women are men.
- The risk posed by trans women to women in "safe spaces" is significant.

 

[wellwisher]

Indeed, your response was on the short list of what I thought I might hear.

Of course I disagree with your response, so that's where we are.


According the article YOU provided, he was a trans woman. That's different than being a cross dresser, correct?

Before I respond to the topic, I have a basic question. When you say trans women or trans man, does trans mean where the person started or where the person wishes to end?

My confusion has to do with the word trans, coming from the word transition from man to woman or woman to man. Transition is a verb that only can apply to the starting state of a person, undergoing change, Once they reach the goal, the transition ends. If a teen is transitioning into adulthood, the active change is as a teen and stops at adult. The adult is where transition stops.

Is the definition based on language logic, or is this an example of Liberalism messing up language logic, to create confusion and a dumb down?

As far as trans and cross dresser, both are the same thing. The difference is an old cross dresser may not be current with the protocol of the new gender fad. They did this before it was a fad. Back when they started to cross dress, there was no gender line of bull to form a gender team. They were being themself, doing their own thing. It was not a herd affect to cross dress in the old days, but was about scattered people, being uniquely themselves in culture.

Gender is a new thing being taught as a group lifestyle. This is not organic, but is really a money making scam for doctors and politicians. The old dogs do not or cannot learn the new tricks, even if the new buzz words, could be used as an excuse for liberal District Attorneys to excuse their bad behavior. If you fail to play the game, by Lefty rules, they may do not get the same benefit of the doubt.

The rules that the Left is making for restrooms, is now making it easier for perverts, old and new, which was part of the plan. What kind of moron would not anticipate this?

I believe in people doing their own thing, but as self sufficient adults, without the nanny state screwing things up via creating a new group dependency for power and money. The old perverts are often more self sufficient and not dependent. They can walk and chew gum.

 

[F1fan]

All I can guess is that you've drunk so much woke kool-aid that you cannot think clearly when presented with even the slightest criticism of the trans activist agenda.

Well there you go, so much for exposing your political affiliation and beliefs.

You are critical of TRANS activism, but I can't distill what your problem is wit it except that it is for trans people. You aren't critical of other activists.

As I have said countless times, I have nothing against trans people - see the JKR quote from above. My ENTIRE beef is with many aspects of the trans activist agenda.

You say this, and then go on to say negative things against trans people and their activists.

Trans people are not the same as the trans activist agenda.

I never said it was. But activism tends to fight where the fight needs be, and sometimes it is aggressive and ugly, as was the Civil War, as was the Civil Rights activism, as was the rights to vote, as have been gay pride parades and marches, as has been the Black Lives Matter movement, as have been reproductive rights protests, etc. Activism is ABOUT people. You just happen to be prejudiced against trans people and their access to the society that most of us take for granted.

 

[anna.]

Well there you go, so much for exposing your political affiliation and beliefs.

There you go, indeed. I've never heard a liberal use that word the way the right uses it.

 

[Revoltingest]

All I can guess is that you've drunk so much woke kool-aid that you cannot think clearly when presented with even the slightest criticism of the trans activist agenda.

As I have said countless times, I have nothing against trans people - see the JKR quote from above. My ENTIRE beef is with many aspects of the trans activist agenda.

Trans people are not the same as the trans activist agenda.

Even if your opposition to treating trans women as women,
& trans men as men is based on reason rather than loathing,
your posts do come across as quite hostile to many here.
It's not just calling trans women "men", but also the angry
tone of the posts.
Even if one has a good argument for a claim, that can get
lost in how it's presented, ie, if continually offensive.