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Palestinians under attack

metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
FearGod said:
NEWS: ISRAEL ASKS U.S. FOR $225 MILLION TO REPLACE MISSING IRON DOME PARTS.

Israel asks U.S. for $225 million to replace missing Iron Dome parts News Haaretz.com Haaretz Com - News - Diplomacy and Defense

I don't know what benefit the US get from spending a lot of money abroad than spending them for the Americans.
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The U.S. and Israel have long had joint dependencies on each other in various areas, including technology, joint defense projects, r & r, intelligence sharing, etc. And I've made the comment many times that being in Israel often feels like what visiting a 51st state would be like.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
metis said:
The U.S. and Israel have long had joint dependencies on each other in various areas, including technology, joint defense projects, r & r, intelligence sharing, etc. And I've made the comment many times that being in Israel often feels like what visiting a 51st state would be like.
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Is that enough reason.

Can't USA have the technology and defense projects except with the Jew's mind.:shrug:
 
MD

MD

qualiaphile
Honestly Hamas started this war, with Hamas launching those rockets. Just like the Chechens fought Russia, and the Kurds fought Iraq and Turkey through their own militias, the Palestinians had Hamas represent them.

But Hamas sucks compared to the Peshmerga or the Chechens, so they're getting beat down. Next time they want to start an insurgency they should be better armed and organized, otherwise not start one at all. It's not Israel's fault they are horrible fighters.
 
ShivaFan

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
I have made one minor change to my position. In my earlier reply to this thread where I was discussing the very serious danger posed by the proliferation of rocket/SAM etc systems into the hands of amateurs such as the pro-Russian militants and terrorist as Hamas, I stated:

" Even without such systems they will manage to shoot down a domestic air flight if the airspace over this region of the ME isn't shut down sooner or later and hunderds more world passengers are destined to die if Hamas isn't stopped. "

In context of a more indepth look at this, and with the recent FAA "recommendations" to restrict flights into Israel, I am currently of the opinion that this restriction "recommendation" is simply a political stunt by the Obama administration to try and hurt the commerce and passage of persons (including those coming to assist) and economy of Israel to put the screws on Israel to "cease fire" in yet again the jaded world view of this failed Obama administration and which only benefits Hamas with yet another claim to victory.

Despite any risk, I now oppose any such politically motivated "restrictions" which actually have nothing to do with concern for American lives but rooted in delusional left wing agenda.
 
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CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
metis said:
Mainly the part whereas you negatively stereotyped Palestinian parents. Meir's comments I long interpreted as being in reference to mainly the Arab leaders of those who maliciously attacked Israel while realizing that Israel would have to respond back, thus endangering even their own civilians.

But I mostly cannot endorse Moshe's statements. A human life is a human life regardless as to one's nationality or religious beliefs. Israel has to do what it has to do to protect its own population, but it's truly unfortunate that it has had to come to this.

What really is "over-the-top", however, are those who defend Hamas and try to blame everything on Israel. That position is undoubtedly terribly hypocritical because if it were their country being offensively attacked by a neighboring country, they'd be singing an entirely different tune, I betcha.
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I stand by my statements.

Terrorists don't become terrorists by accident.

The parents lead them in most cases in this path.

Hamas starts them early indoctrinating them. It's the parents that let this happen.

Therefore, the parent are complicit in the terrorism as well.

The kids didn't just stop in these camps by accident. Their parents sent them there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPRxDAlYZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3OYjKZ2Cu8
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
ssainhu said:
US is giving money to Israel for its defense system, and is giving money to Palestinians for humanitarian aid. Hardly comparable.

$225 million versus $47 million

U.S. to Send $47 Million in Humanitarian Aid to Gaza Strip | TheBlaze.com
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Which the PA uses to fund terrorism.

You are right it's not comparable.

Actually that's $47 million in addition to the $100 million the US gives to the PA to help fund terrorism.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&p=how+much+the+us+gives+the+pa
 
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CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
Tarheeler said:
This thread is a great example of why this situation will not be solved anytime soon. It is so complex, and yet most people want to focus in on one thing and demonize their opponent.

I'm a religious Jew and very much a Zionist. I want Israel to know both safety and peace and to prosper for generations to come. I also want her to treat her neighbors fairly and with dignity, which is something often lost in the pursuit of security. I have no delusions about the dangers that exist both outside and within Israel, but her policies towards the Palestinians are sometimes draconian and brutal. I also support the Palestinians' right to have a state of their own, independently governed and fully sovereign. I also want them to flourish and the know safety and peace, but terrorism is not the way to get there.

What both sides need to realize is that the status quo will not achieve any of that. Rockets can not rain down on a population indiscriminately, militants can not use their civilians as shields, and legitimate military strikes can not cause civilian deaths and injuries. Both need to find a new way to deal with each other and to work towards realizing their goals.

The history of this conflict goes back close to a century, and includes both European and Middle Eastern players. The initial opportunity for a peaceful resolution was thrown away long ago, and time can't be turned back. Jordan, Egypt, and Israel all occupy the former British Mandate of Palestine, and all need to play a part in partnership with the Palestinian people in order to find a solution.
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I'll be happy to.

I will highlight the places you are incorrect.

You are suggesting there is some sort of moral equivalency.

There isn't.

The palestinian side has been to use terrorism, bombing markets, bus stops, schools, train stops, marketplace, etc.

For example, the security fence wouldn't be needed if palestinian terrorists weren't launching terrorist attacks through the territory. The security fence has all but stopped it.

Israel has stated numerous time that it would negotiate anytime, anywhere.

The palestinian leadership simply wants all the jews in Israel dead.

There is no one to negotiate with.

You sound like Obama/Kerry whom just want to be a "broker" instead of taking a clear side against evil and for the only democracy in the middle east.

There is no moral equivalency.

And I strongly disagree of your attempt to make one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEKwXsmDXOA

Israel has done what it need to do in order to protect it's own citizens.

Israel has reacted with more restrain than any other country would under these circumstances.
 
beenie

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
CMike said:
I'll be happy to.

I will highlight the places you are incorrect.

You are suggesting there is some sort of moral equivalency.

There isn't.

The palestinian side has been to use terrorism, bombing markets, bus stops, schools, train stops, marketplace, etc.

For example, the security fence wouldn't be needed if palestinian terrorists weren't launching terrorist attacks through the territory. The security fence has all but stopped it.

Israel has stated numerous time that it would negotiate anytime, anywhere.

The palestinian leadership simply wants all the jews in Israel dead.

There is no one to negotiate with.

You sound like Obama/Kerry whom just want to be a "broker" instead of taking a clear side against evil and for the only democracy in the middle east.

There is no moral equivalency.

And I strongly disagree of your attempt to make one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEKwXsmDXOA

Israel has done what it need to do in order to protect it's own citizens.

Israel has reacted with more restrain than any other country would under these circumstances.
Click to expand...

Sadly, once again, this is why there is no negotiation. The extremes on both sides insist on their way or no way, and the wheel just keeps on spinning.
 
Tarheeler

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
CMike said:
I'll be happy to.

I will highlight the places you are incorrect.

You are suggesting there is some sort of moral equivalency.

There isn't.

The palestinian side has been to use terrorism, bombing markets, bus stops, schools, train stops, marketplace, etc.

For example, the security fence wouldn't be needed if palestinian terrorists weren't launching terrorist attacks through the territory. The security fence has all but stopped it.

Israel has stated numerous time that it would negotiate anytime, anywhere.

The palestinian leadership simply wants all the jews in Israel dead.

There is no one to negotiate with.

You sound like Obama/Kerry whom just want to be a "broker" instead of taking a clear side against evil and for the only democracy in the middle east.

There is no moral equivalency.

And I strongly disagree of your attempt to make one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEKwXsmDXOA

Israel has done what it need to do in order to protect it's own citizens.

Israel has reacted with more restrain than any other country would under these circumstances.
Click to expand...

You seem to be seeing things that don't exist.

I've not claimed nor implied there is a moral equivalency.
What I've stated is that there is moral responsibility and an imperative to do better.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
ssainhu said:
Sadly, once again, this is why there is no negotiation. The extremes on both sides insist on their way or no way, and the wheel just keeps on spinning.
Click to expand...

How does one negotiate when the one side repeated state even in their charter that they want to eliminate Israel and that any Jews in any country are fair game to be killed? Please explain where the compromise is.

Let's say that I live next to you, and I start trying to kill you and your family, and when you ask why I'm doing this I say because I want you gone. How are you going to compromise this out? Maybe if I promise to kill only one of your children, is that OK?

This is not a game that's being played, so we can't just hit reset and start all over again. Which country will just allow itself to be hit time and time again and just ignore it? Hamas is constantly making attempts to kill and kidnap Israelis, so how can this be compromised? Would you accept such assaults where you live?
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
I think they intentionally provoked Israel to get this response.

What other point would there be to just endlessly shoot rockets that weren't doing anything (although one Israeli was killed)?

They wanted Israel to have an incursion. They want lots of dead arabs in gaza so they can use it for propaganda.

In a way Israel played into their hands, but they had no other choice.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
CMike said:
G-D bless Canada.

Statement by the Prime Minister of Canada in response to the situation in Israel | Prime Minister of Canada
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If you don't mind, I want to post the article because I really feel that some people should read it as I'm certain some will not click on your link:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper today issued the following statement in response to the situation in Israel:

“The indiscriminate rocket attacks from Gaza on Israel are terrorist acts, for which there is no justification. It is evident that Hamas is deliberately using human shields to further terror in the region.

“Failure by the international community to condemn these reprehensible actions would encourage these terrorists to continue their appalling actions. Canada calls on its allies and partners to recognize that these terrorist acts are unacceptable and that solidarity with Israel is the best way of stopping the conflict.

“Canada is unequivocally behind Israel. We support its right to defend itself, by itself, against these terror attacks, and urge Hamas to immediately cease their indiscriminate attacks on innocent Israeli civilians.

“Canada reiterates its call for the Palestinian government to disarm Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups operating in Gaza, including the Iranian proxy, Palestinian Islamic Jihad.”

- See more at: Statement by the Prime Minister of Canada in response to the situation in Israel | Prime Minister of Canada
 
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