Parents Rights On Transgender Policy

[YmirGF]

Science, reason, understanding, etc. has upended many things throughout history. It's how society evolves.

Agreed. It's just the "marketing" on this particular "truth" has been a monumental failure.

 

[YmirGF]

Seriously, why does that matter?

You might have noticed that we have these two rather larger groups screaming at each other over the whole ordeal.

It appears to matter quite a lot.

 

[Father Heathen]

Transgender people have existed since people have existed.

This wasn't such a big deal until conservative politicians decided this was the new issue they could use to get the bigot vote.

Right. It's a fabricated moral panic that's being used as a political tool. Like you've said they've been around forever, yet only recently have people starting soiling themselves over it. It's one of the many nothingburgers that conservatives use to distract and manipulate dopes into voting against their own interests.

 

[Alien826]

Agreed. So? What?

So what's wrong with teaching about it in schools, given that some of the children's class mates may exhibit gender dysphoria?

 

[YmirGF]

Right. It's a fabricated moral panic that's being used as a political tool. Like you've said they've been around forever, yet only recently have people starting soiling themselves over it. It's one of the many nothingburgers that conservatives use to distract and manipulate dopes into voting against their own interests.

I'm more inclined to ****can the whole gender theory canard and start from scratch.

 

[Father Heathen]

Agreed. It's just the "marketing" on this particular "truth" has been a monumental failure.

A bunch of people still deny the theory of evolution, but that doesn't make it a "failure" nor change the reality of it.

 

[YmirGF]

So what's wrong with teaching about it in schools, given that some of the children's class mates may exhibit gender dysphoria?

After grade 12. No problemo.

 

[YmirGF]

A bunch of slack jawed yokels still deny the theory of evolution, but that doesn't make it a "failure" nor change the reality of it.

It would never occur to me to put the two theories on the same level. Weird.

 

[SkepticThinker]

After grade 12. No problemo.

Too late.

 

[Alien826]

You might have noticed that we have these two rather larger groups screaming at each other over the whole ordeal.

It appears to matter quite a lot.

I hadn't even heard of it until I read posts on a right-wing forum describing it as some kind of evil left-wing plot.

I'm fine with leaving it to those that have the problem and those that have to deal with them, but unfortunately people started turning it into a political crusade and others reacted defensively.

 

[Alien826]

After grade 12. No problemo.

I'm not totally familiar with the US "grade" system, but that would restrict it to College students wouldn't it? Children start having this problem much earlier than that.

 

[Alien826]

I'm more inclined to ****can the whole gender theory canard and start from scratch.

What would you replace it with?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The question is not about whether teachers or schools are "trans"-ing kids -- that is way beyond their pay grade. The question is only whether, when the teacher/school finds out that a child is acting out a changed gender identity. The teacher is not qualified to provide care, but nor is the teacher qualified to determine whether outing the child to their parents is going to result in good or harm to that child. That is a risk they should not be willing to take.

Yes! This is absolutely correct.

There are a thousand things teachers don't tell parents because it is frankly not their business. This is from a high school teacher perspective, though. There's a reason for this: kids, through school, are working on independence from their parents. Parents should absolutely be involved in their kids education, but there are some things about being in school that they have to accept will occur independent of their influence. This has always been the case and until parents have livestream access to their kids 24/7, it will always be the case.

Especially in high school where normal, healthy development includes experimenting with identity and especially where it is independent of their parents, parents need to accept that they have brought living beings into a complex, dynamic world where they won't be able to control everything.

 

[Father Heathen]

It would never occur to me to put the two theories on the same level. Weird.

My point is that the validity of something isn't measured by its acceptance.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The biggest problem is for the parents to accept the reality of the situation.

No teacher wants to be responsible for conflict or abuse between child or parent.

In any good family relationship the parent would be aware of a child's sexuality, whether or not they had discussed it yet.
There should be no onus on a school to be the messenger.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm not totally familiar with the US "grade" system, but that would restrict it to College students wouldn't it? Children start having this problem much earlier than that.

It varies, but typically K through 5 is elementary, 6 through 8 is junior high, 9 through 12 is high school, and then it's off to college, university, trade school, military, the work force, etc.

I grew up in a small rural town, where K through 6 was elementary, and 7 through 12 was high school (7 and 8 were "junior high", but it was in the same building as HS.)

 

[Father Heathen]

The biggest problem is for the parents to accept the reality of the situation.

No teacher wants to be responsible for conflict or abuse between child or parent.

In any good family relationship the parent would be aware of a child's sexuality, whether or not they had discussed it yet.
There should be no onus on a school to be the messenger.

Right. If a child is hiding their sexual or gender identity from their parents, then there's probably a good reason for it.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If they do no inform parents over minor personal choices then, at the same time, they should also not encourage any such gender identity related behaviours.

Teachers are required to be respectful of a student's culture and personal decisions where possible, meaning as long as it isn't an immediate danger, has potential to increase risk of disruption in schools, or may be or become disruptive to the academics. This extends to the child's family, but it is necessary to focus on how the child presents since they are essentially the immediate client (so to speak). This is in reality a constant balancing act and one of the most complex and stressful parts of the job. I have parents I work with who want constant updates about their child, but this is impractical and potentially harmful since it impacts my relationship with the kid. Relationships are everything when it comes to successful pedagogy. So I do what I can and am honest with all parties about my limits and boundaries.

An obviously complex situation may occur where a child is being bullied by peers over this, and the parents need to know about this, but there is either the potential of abuse or the parents may not be affirming which may lead to self-harm or running away.

Ultimately, with something like this thread's topic, but also including sexuality and platonic relationships, the response below is very well said:

The biggest problem is for the parents to accept the reality of the situation.

No teacher wants to be responsible for conflict or abuse between child or parent.

In any good family relationship the parent would be aware of a child's sexuality, whether or not they had discussed it yet.
There should be no onus on a school to be the messenger.

 

[Quintessence]

Something these stupid anti-human diversity bills never address is what constitutes a "change" in "gender identity" when "gender identity" has infinite permutations given it's a social construct devoid of universal agreement.

 

[YmirGF]

Too late.

Sadly, you are correct. It is too late.

I hadn't even heard of it until I read posts on a right-wing forum describing it as some kind of evil left-wing plot.

I wouldn't know, I don't frequent those kinds of forums. Don't watch Faux News either.

I'm fine with leaving it to those that have the problem and those that have to deal with them, but unfortunately people started turning it into a political crusade and others reacted defensively.

I do agree, and this is where the messaging has gotten way off base.

What would you replace it with?

As indicated, I would scrap the entire existing model and start from scratch. What a concept? Open the ideas up for REAL discussions on gender instead of the intellectual minefield that we have now.