Paris terrorists not Practicing Muslims at all

[Lyndon]

Well for one thing the Koran doesn't tell anyone to blow themselves up, or go on suicide attacks, and if your looking for directions to violence, the Old Testament is pretty violent too.

 

[Shusha]

The verse means that God chooses whom he wanted to guide to Islam,
so the person who God dislike won't let him comfortable by living the
Islamic way of life which makes him feel as strangled similar to the
feeling when rising up towards the sky.

Okay. That's what I thought it meant. So why would G-d "dislike" a person? And why would G-d intentionally prevent a person from being part of the "one true" religion? And wouldn't that be rather bad for that person, hell and all?

 

[Shusha]

They invariably use bad English translations of the Koran, and don't have clue about the Arabic meaning, which the Muslims are trying to explain.

Source?

 

[Shusha]

I tried in one thread to explain the real meanings of such verses and the ones who opposed me
were the disbelievers themselves even though they have limited knowledge in the teachings of Islam
, they insisted to understand the verses as the terrorists do.

I'll go take a look. Which thread?

 

[Aquitaine]

It did work in reality until 1924.

Due to colonialism, the lands of the Muslims were divided to reflect nationality and ethnicity rather than human brotherhood. Leaders were placed to rule these countries that complied to their western rulers. And thus lead to the worsening of the application of Islamic rulings. These leaders present themselves religious and Islamic but in fact are not.

Egypt is one recent example. Almost every western nation played a role in the coup against Morsi. They supposedly stand against human rights violations and yet the Egyptian dog Sisi was welcomed by Britain like he was the next in line to the English throne. They are happy with him so long as he oppresses Muslims in his country and has no say about other countries.

If it weren't for colonialism, the Ottoman Empire wouldn't exist. Just sayin'.

 

[Shad]

What part of "leader of the entire Muslim community" do you not understand??? He has to be accepted by the entire community as their leader, not just claim he is the leader. He's the Muslim equivalent of a false Jewish Messiah, read your history books and see how far they got.

By your criteria most people that claimed to be the Caliph were never the Caliph. Abu Bakr was selected as the first by a council, not the community hence the Ridda Wars. Omar and Uthman were not since they were selected by a council after the Ridda Wars. Ali was not the Caliph due to the another civil war against him. The Abbasid Caliphate were not a Caliphate since there was a rival Caliphate in Spain. The Ottomans were never a Caliphate since there were proto-Iranian nations which were in open conflict with the Ottomans. Congratulations you just made almost every Caliphate and Caliph illegitimate

 

[Shad]

It did work in reality until 1924.

Due to colonialism, the lands of the Muslims were divided to reflect nationality and ethnicity rather than human brotherhood. Leaders were placed to rule these countries that complied to their western rulers. And thus lead to the worsening of the application of Islamic rulings. These leaders present themselves religious and Islamic but in fact are not.

Egypt is one recent example. Almost every western nation played a role in the coup against Morsi. They supposedly stand against human rights violations and yet the Egyptian dog Sisi was welcomed by Britain like he was the next in line to the English throne. They are happy with him so long as he oppresses Muslims in his country and has no say about other countries.

The Ottomans were just as imperialist and colonialist as those that dismantled it.

 

[FearGod]

Okay. That's what I thought it meant. So why would G-d "dislike" a person? And why would G-d intentionally prevent a person from being part of the "one true" religion? And wouldn't that be rather bad for that person, hell and all?

I don't know exactly as of why but i guess God knows what kind of persons we're by
the way we behave during our life, one example is Abu Lahab the uncle of the prophet ,
God confirmed that he'll die as a disbeliever and will be punished in the hell fire and that
indeed what had happened, Abu Lahab didn't accept Islam and died as a disbeliever.

 

[FearGod]

I'll go take a look. Which thread?

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/killing-innocent-people-is-a-crime-in-islam.147176/

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Perhaps a more conductive thing would be to disprove their version of Islam, instead of being in denial.

I agree. In my view Islam needs to take a long hard look at itself and consider the need for reform and modernisation. It may not be enough to argue that the extremists are misinterpreting the Quran, it may require a more radical re-evaluation, recognising that the Quran is the product of a particular place and time, re-expressing it's spiritual principles in a way that make sense in the 21st century.

 

[leibowde84]

You said that their actions reflect Islamic teachings because they read the Qur'an and the Hadith.

I never made this claim. And I never said that their actions were Islamic. I just said that they were Muslims, and the fact that they don't know Arabic doesn't change this.

 

[Lyndon]

You also said you were sure the ISIS recruits had read the Koran and Hadith.

 

[Gharib]

The Ottomans were just as imperialist and colonialist as those that dismantled it.

Not at all. If you look at Islamic history and how vast lands fell under Islamic rule you will understand that we never invaded or attacked someone other than to defend ourselves or the innocent people who were being oppressed by their leaders.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The verse means that God chooses whom he wanted to guide to Islam,
so the person who God dislike won't let him comfortable by living the
Islamic way of life which makes him feel as strangled similar to the
feeling when rising up towards the sky.

That's awful and makes God sound like a monster. Sounds like Calvinism.

 

[YmirGF]

Not at all. If you look at Islamic history and how vast lands fell under Islamic rule you will understand that we never invaded or attacked someone other than to defend ourselves or the innocent people who were being oppressed by their leaders.

Hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sadly, what is not so amusing is that you likely believe what you have written above.

 

[YmirGF]

That's awful and makes God sound like a monster. Sounds like Calvinism.

The weird part is that Muslims are so used to these passages and given interpretations they no longer stop to even consider if the idea being presented is even reasonable. It never occurs to many that the ideas articulated are absurd.

 

[Gharib]

Hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sadly, what is not so amusing is that you likely believe what you have written above.

That's an amazing refutation Ymir, you have improved over the years.

 

[YmirGF]

That's an amazing refutation Ymir, you have improved over the years.

It's an equally amazing claim I was responding to. I'm not exactly sure how anyone could take such a claim particularly seriously.

 

[Glaurung]

Hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sadly, what is not so amusing is that you likely believe what you have written above.

I almost almost spat coffee all over my keyboard when I read Gharib's comment. It's a whole lot worse then I thought if such views are typical amongst Muslims.

 

[Gharib]

It's an equally amazing claim I was responding to. I'm not exactly sure how anyone could take such a claim particularly seriously.

Do you have evidence of the contrary?