"Patriarchy"

[Revoltingest]

I am actually talk,ing more about opportunity for control. So it is true that y havent had no women president, but how many women candidates? And truly the voters are more women than men. In theory, why would a woman have less opportunities an a man to be president, if she wanted to?

If women don't elect other women much, that isn't necessarily due to a lack of power.

When it comes to business, is there any reason why a woman would have less opportunities than a man to put her own business?

Women have many opportunities. In fact, they have some advantages. A friend with a construction company put the corporation
in his wife's name because she's not only Hispanic, but she's female too! This confers an advantage in government work.

Al these are just questions, but I am interested in the answers. Where is the patriarchy in US now?

Perhaps women vote men (instead of each other) into power as a vestige of patriarchy, eh?

 

[Me Myself]

If women don't elect other women much, that isn't necessarily due to a lack of power.


Women have many opportunities. In fact, they have some advantages. A friend with a construction company put the corporation in his wife's name because she's not only Hispanic, but she's female. This confers an advantage in government work.


Perhaps women vote men into power as a vestige of patriarchy, eh?

That would be very hard to determine but to say that we would at least have to know how many women candidates have there been since they had the ability to run for president.

About there being advantages, which kind of advantages are you talking about?

 

[Revoltingest]

That would be very hard to determine but to say that we would at least have to know how many women candidates have there been since they had the ability to run for president.
About there being advantages, which kind of advantages are you talking about?

Preferential treatment in government contracts.

 

[Me Myself]

Preferential treatment in government contracts.

And which are the disadvantages that you know of?

 

[Alceste]

The state of patriarchy in most western countries is significantly weakened from the days when my grandmother was not legally considered a "person" and the only jobs women were allowed to have were teacher, secretary or nurse. The second world war changed a lot in that respect, getting more acceptance in the workforce. These days, there are not as many closed doors as there once were, but as I mentioned before, it still isn't easy to be a woman on an all male crew in a traditionally male job. It's a nightmare, basically, with constant sexual harassment and career sabotage.

Women hold a fraction of the top jobs in the private and public sector, not nearly enough to be able to call any countryin the West "egalitarian" except northern Europe.

 

[Me Myself]

The state of patriarchy in most western countries is significantly weakened from the days when my grandmother was not legally considered a "person" and the only jobs women were allowed to have were teacher, secretary or nurse. The second world war changed a lot in that respect, getting more acceptance in the workforce. These days, there are not as many closed doors as there once were, but as I mentioned before, it still isn't easy to be a woman on an all male crew in a traditionally male job. It's a nightmare, basically, with constant sexual harassment and career sabotage.

Women hold a fraction of the top jobs in the private and public sector, not nearly enough to be able to call any countryin the West "egalitarian" except northern Europe.

How much is this because of "discrimination" and how uch is this because they dont apply?

About career sabotage, that is a serious problem to be fixed, but when it comes to patriarchy we are talking about leadership positions: being the head of the company for example. One is rarely hired for that job, one generally is the one that MAKES the company. Also, those that make it to the top by conections are generally the ones who invest most of their time to that, and stadistically speacking, men ARE the ones who generally invest more time on their professional goals.

Having them to be equal or close to equal when women are noticeably lower on the appliying to those jobs and time spent to get those jobs wouldnt mean equality, but the opposite.

Who is controling these things? Who takes them into account when they try to get their numbers?

 

[Alceste]

How much is this because of "discrimination" and how uch is this because they dont apply?

About career sabotage, that is a serious problem to be fixed, but when it comes to patriarchy we are talking about leadership positions: being the head of the company for example. One is rarely hired for that job, one generally is the one that MAKES the company. Also, those that make it to the top by conections are generally the ones who invest most of their time to that, and stadistically speacking, men ARE the ones who generally invest more time on their professional goals.

Having them to be equal or close to equal when women are noticeably lower on the appliying to those jobs and time spent to get those jobs wouldnt mean equality, but the opposite.

Who is controling these things? Who takes them into account when they try to get their numbers?

You need to stop thinking of patriarchy as something men do to women. Feminism doesn't see it that way. It is a state of affairs. Once more: both men and women in a patriarchy tend to adopt attitudes and behavior that perpetuate patriarchy.

I feel your arguments neglect the fact that it is part of human nature to want fit in.

 

[AdityaMookerjee]

Feminism doesn't say what you say it says. There's no "cause and effect", no assumption that "gender inequality" preceded patriarchy or vice versa.

Once more, since you've ignored it so far:

IN A PATRIARCHY, BOTH WOMEN AND MEN TEND TO ADOPT GENDER ROLES THAT AFFIRM AND PERPETUATE THE PATRIARCHAL SOCIAL SYSTEM.

Aleste, you feel that about your community, the nation, or the globe? I wouldn't want to get married, because I respect my mother, today. If you are a lady, would you do the same for anyone? Also, the Amazon tribe, having a masculine name, perhaps a European name, like is Germania, Britannia, was comprised of a matriarchal society. You don't want to be a woman of the Amazonia tribe, who did worse according to your ideals, to men. Men were animals, and pet one's at that, if your ideals are verified. They were killed, perhaps indiscriminately, or in other words, as and when the discrimination of women allowed. Would you have given up your matriarchal rights, in Amazonia, being one of that tribe? I wouldn't marry you, if I felt I would be unhappy because you would be, later.
I am sorry that I misspelled your name, Alceste. It is Greek, as I am aware.

 

[AdityaMookerjee]

If I may make a nice observation, it does appear that President Obama is ethnically Hawaiian. I mean, it looks so. He was Governor of Hawaii, was he not? Perhaps, people can resemble others around them, in very general ways.

 

[Alceste]

Aleste, you feel that about your community, the nation, or the globe? I wouldn't want to get married, because I respect my mother, today. If you are a lady, would you do the same for anyone? Also, the Amazon tribe, having a masculine name, perhaps a European name, like is Germania, Britannia, was comprised of a matriarchal society. You don't want to be a woman of the Amazonia tribe, who did worse according to your ideals, to men. Men were animals, and pet one's at that, if your ideals are verified. They were killed, perhaps indiscriminately, or in other words, as and when the discrimination of women allowed. Would you have given up your matriarchal rights, in Amazonia, being one of that tribe? I wouldn't marry you, if I felt I would be unhappy because you would be, later.
I am sorry that I misspelled your name, Alceste. It is Greek, as I am aware.

I can't figure out what you're talking about. Sorry!

 

[Revoltingest]

If I may make a nice observation, it does appear that President Obama is ethnically Hawaiian. I mean, it looks so. He was Governor of Hawaii, was he not? Perhaps, people can resemble others around them, in very general ways.

He was never a governor of any state.
In fact, until he became prez, he'd never held an executive post.

 

[Koldo]

And the unanswered question has been: where is matriarchy in our culture?

No idea.

You raised an interesting question in my mind:
If only women were elected ( even though there were also male candidates ), would our countries instantly become matriarchies?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No idea.

You raised an interesting question in my mind:
If only women were elected ( even though there were also male candidates ), would our countries instantly become matriarchies?

No, IMO. Not instantly. But if women were elected and subsequently limited protections and opportunities for men because they were men, told men they needed to let women be the natural leaders and nurturers they were biologically born to be and protect their families, told men everywhere they weren't capable of performing particular jobs or positions because they were men, held all-female panels that decided what men were allowed to do with their own reproductive systems.....then I'd think we would have a matriarchy on our hands.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, IMO. Not instantly. But if women were elected and subsequently limited protections and opportunities for men because they were men, told men they needed to let women be the natural leaders and nurturers they were biologically born to be and protect their families, told men everywhere they weren't capable of performing particular jobs or positions because they were men, held all-female panels that decided what men were allowed to do with their own reproductive systems.....then I'd think we would have a matriarchy on our hands.

Women in charge? Scary thought!
Do you think we'd have more or less war?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Women in charge? Scary thought!
Do you think we'd have more or less war?

Ya know, I've said in my years and years here that I abhor matriarchy as much as I do patriarchy (I've brought up the Wicker Man repeatedly). Women, given the idea that they can reign with justifiable violence (in their eyes), are susceptible to commit violent crime and enact war too. There is so much more overlap in our ability to be human than there are differences, which is what I've been arguing all along.

If anything confounds me more than anything, it's this idea that as much as I fight patriarchal systems, that there's an assumption that I wish women would just run everything because we're somehow due to our gender so incredibly perfect and wonderful. I don't assume that, have never assumed that, and wonder why anyone who has spent any considerable time discussing gender issues with me would even think I'd entertain that notion.

Who do I think should be in charge? The person who is most capable. Period.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ya know, I've said in my years and years here that I abhor matriarchy as much as I do patriarchy (I've brought up the Wicker Man repeatedly). Women, given the idea that they can reign with justifiable violence (in their eyes), are susceptible to commit violent crime and enact war too. There is so much more overlap in our ability to be human than there are differences, which is what I've been arguing all along.
If anything confounds me more than anything, it's this idea that as much as I fight patriarchal systems, that there's an assumption that I wish women would just run everything because we're somehow due to our gender so incredibly perfect and wonderful. I don't assume that, have never assumed that, and wonder why anyone who has spent any considerable time discussing gender issues with me would even think I'd entertain that notion.
Who do I think should be in charge? The person who is most capable. Period.

Robots or lizard people.
We should give them a try.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Robots or lizard people.
We should give them a try.

ALIEN lizard people from another dimension.

David Icke would be proud.

 

[Me Myself]

ALIEN lizard people from another dimension.

David Icke would be proud.

Alien lizard ghosts from another dimension.

 

[Alceste]

Ya know, I've said in my years and years here that I abhor matriarchy as much as I do patriarchy (I've brought up the Wicker Man repeatedly). Women, given the idea that they can reign with justifiable violence (in their eyes), are susceptible to commit violent crime and enact war too. There is so much more overlap in our ability to be human than there are differences, which is what I've been arguing all along.

If anything confounds me more than anything, it's this idea that as much as I fight patriarchal systems, that there's an assumption that I wish women would just run everything because we're somehow due to our gender so incredibly perfect and wonderful. I don't assume that, have never assumed that, and wonder why anyone who has spent any considerable time discussing gender issues with me would even think I'd entertain that notion.

Who do I think should be in charge? The person who is most capable. Period.

Thatcher. The Falklands.

Women can be warmongers too!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Who do I think should be in charge? The person who is most capable. Period.

Yeah, but I don't want to be in charge.