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"Patriarchy"

Me Myself

Back to my username
Consider how many straight allies you see at LGBT rallies. Now consider how many men are at women's rights rallies. They're there, but by far they're in the minority.

As for examples, one time I volunteered at a display booth for a women's reproductive rights group. When they first heard my interest in doing so, the initial response was basically, holy crap, a man wants to be a part of this!

I dont have the personal experience. Tere are no feminist groups in Ecuador. I remember some time ago when I was trying to find more aot it I figured I could start looking at which movements exist in my city and what are they working on now.

I found they where not allowed here or were expelled or something similar, giving that Ecuador does care about the unborn and they were trying to prote the right to kill em.

About straight allies I assume it would e the fear of being considered gay for being there. When it comes to womens rights talks I ignore it, but assume it may have to do with the association of feminism favoring women above men. That is mere speculation though. i dont know if many people in US think that. Although feminist frequency and other places I ve seen that are self proclaimed feministic say that the media have given them a bad rep as precisely that, misandrogenous fanatics and that.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
You misunderstand him. There are lots of straight allies at gay rights events. A higher proportion than men at women's rights events.

I think it's sad that your country is so misogynistic women are not even allowed to organize to promote their own interests. That must be awful for them.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Consider how many straight allies you see at LGBT rallies. Now consider how many men are at women's rights rallies. They're there, but by far they're in the minority.

As for examples, one time I volunteered at a display booth for a women's reproductive rights group. When they first heard my interest in doing so, the initial response was basically, holy crap, a man wants to be a part of this!

:hug: Thank you.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
You misunderstand him. There are lots of straight allies at gay rights events. A higher proportion than men at women's rights events.

I think it's sad that your country is so misogynistic women are not even allowed to organize to promote their own interests. That must be awful for them.

We just protect our unborn. Many which become daughters.

Protecting women from women is obviusly not mysoginistic :shrug: then again that is another discussion for another thread.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
We just protect our unborn. Many which become daughters.

Protecting women from women is obviusly not mysoginistic :shrug: then again that is another discussion for another thread.

The same argument tends to be given by people who shoot at and bomb clinics that provide abortions. They're just doing what they can to fight against killing unborn babies.

And the idea that women will not get abortions when they are made illegal is shortsighted. Women who do not wish to be pregnant will do what they can to terminate the pregnancy, whether you think what is being terminated is a fetus or a baby or a life or not. It has happened all throughout history, through all cultures, and in all classes and beliefs.

It IS misogynistic to suggest that women are neither capable nor are they allowed to make decisions about what happens to their own bodies.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
We just protect our unborn. Many which become daughters.

Protecting women from women is obviusly not mysoginistic :shrug: then again that is another discussion for another thread.

feminism is about far more than reproductive choice. It is misogynistic to outlaw women organizing to lobby for their own interests. You know it is.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
feminism is about far more than reproductive choice. It is misogynistic to outlaw women organizing to lobby for their own interests. You know it is.

I doubt they are outlawed to do that. Wat they are outlawed to do is to form a group that supports ilegalities.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
There is a difference between (1) supporting illegalities and (2) supporting the legalization of currently illegal things.

Of course there is! They were spreading information on how to abort "safely" ...

So yeah they were promoting something ilegal.

They had a phone line where you called said you effed up and they told you how to abort. That was against the law.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Of course there is! They were spreading information on how to abort "safely" ...

So yeah they were promoting something ilegal.

They had a phone line where you called said you effed up and they told you how to abort. That was against the law.

Would you rather they abort unsafely?

Sounds like a very noble cause. I would support it. I can't bear the thought of girls butchering themselves with coat hangers our throwing themselves down stairs for lack of information.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
"Abortion in Ecuador is currently illegal except in case of the threat to life or health of the woman, or the result of the rape of a woman who is mentally handicapped or insane. The punishment for a woman who has an abortion is 1 to 5 years in prison and the punishment for a doctor or other person who performs the procedure is 2 to 5 years.[1]"

Abortion in Ecuador - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Generally, since we've been speaking of an American author, I place a lot of debates as if things were as they were in America. We've been talking about how patriarchy still exists in a country where abortion up to 24 weeks is a constitutional right bestowed to women and it's perfectly legal to distribute information on how to do self-induced abortions...
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
"Abortion in Ecuador is currently illegal except in case of the threat to life or health of the woman, or the result of the rape of a woman who is mentally handicapped or insane. The punishment for a woman who has an abortion is 1 to 5 years in prison and the punishment for a doctor or other person who performs the procedure is 2 to 5 years.[1]"

Abortion in Ecuador - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Generally, since we've been speaking of an American author, I place a lot of debates as if things were as they were in America. We've been talking about how patriarchy still exists in a country where abortion up to 24 weeks is a constitutional right bestowed to women and it's perfectly legal to distribute information on how to do self-induced abortions...

I dont know, this thread has nothing to do with abortion. I was merely telling you that feminist initiatives were shut down in Ecuador because they were being accomplices to crime against inocent lives.

Thats it. I was making it clear there is nothing against the law here for women to get together and make a group about whatever they want, they may do so in the same way a man may do so. I am not interested in discussing patriarchy Ecuador. I dont even expect to keep living here in the next 5 years.
 
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dust1n

Zindīq
News item from Europistan....
Is this abomination about patriarchy, feminism, or matriarchy?
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...n56Rz5j1eNr8ls2ySn9WIjN_7CKTI2iwJQXpoUJ6aMAKg

It looks like it's about pornography. And it's not entirely accurate of a headline.

"This kind of proposal, if voted for, isn't a binding resolution in favour of everything it pertains to. It's simply the European Parliament signalling that it agrees with the actions proposed by the lead author, or "rapporteur", of the report -- in this case, Dutch MEP Kartika Liotard. The European Parliament (unlike most national parliaments within Europe) can't actually draft legislation by itself. That's reserved for the executive branch, the European Commission. These kinds of endorsements, once passed, are effectively taken by the European Commission as an indication of the opinion of the Parliament, and it then drafts bills accordingly.

If the Commission wants to introduce measures such as those found in the resolution, it'll have a mandate for them, providing the endorsement of the report (specifically an " own initiative report") passes. Then the draft bill goes back to the Parliament to vote on, and if it passes then, it becomes a legally binding directive for EU member states to follow.


However, we've actually been here before with this proposal -- in fact, that's why the report was commissioned in the first place. In 1995 the Fourth World Conference on Women was held in Beijing, aimed at "removing all obstacles to women's active participation in all spheres of public and private life through a full and equal share in economic, social, cultural and political decision-making". As a result, in 1997 the Parliament passed the " Resolution on discrimination against women in advertising" -- which, while far less comprehensive than the latest report, does contain a clause that "calls for statutory measures to prevent any form of pornography in the media and in advertising and for a ban on advertising for pornographic products and sex tourism".
The reason that that's almost exactly the same wording as in the latest report is because that's the point -- it explicitly "calls on the EU and its Member States to take concrete action on its resolution of 16 September 1997" and the proposals it put forward -- it just updates it with extra clauses that take the web into account. Much like 1997, however, no matter the vote, it is entirely up to the European Commission to decide whether to move and introduce legislation based on the report. The worry next week is that new clauses regarding media (and internet) regulation will provide for future justification of censorship."

Here's why porn could be banned in the EU, but probably won't be (Wired UK)

"
14. Points out that a policy to eliminate stereotypes in the media will of necessity involve action in the digital field; considers that this requires the launching of initiatives coordinated at EU level with a view to developing a genuine culture of equality on the internet; calls on the Commission to draw up in partnership with the parties concerned a charter to which all internet operators will be invited to adhere;


15. Calls on the EU and its Member States to conduct training and awareness training actions with media professionals on the harmful effects of gender stereotypes and good practices in this area;


16. Stresses the importance of promoting the representation of the female image in a way that respects women’s dignity, and of combating persistent gender stereotypes, in particular the prevalence of degrading images, whilst fully respecting freedom of expression and freedom of the press;


17. Calls on the EU and its Member States to take concrete action on its resolution of 16 September 1997 on discrimination against women in advertising, which called for a ban on all forms of pornography in the media and on the advertising of sex tourism(10);


18. Calls on the EU to conduct research into the links between child pornography and adult pornography and the impacts on girls, women, boys and men, as well as the relationship between pornography and sexual violence;


19. Calls on the Member States to establish independent regulation bodies with the aim of controlling the media and advertising industry and a mandate to impose effective sanctions on companies and individuals promoting the sexualisation of girls;


20. Calls on the Commission to assist Member States in combating the sexualisation of girls not only by compiling the necessary data, promoting good practices and organising information campaigns, but also by providing financial support for measures taken in the Member States, in particular for women’s organisations fighting against sexualisation and violence against women and girls;


21. Calls on the Member States to implement positive action measures to ensure that more women have access to management positions in the media, including top management positions;


22. Calls on the Member States to conduct research and compile comparable data concerning women and the media, including the portrayal of women from specific groups, such as women with disabilities or women belonging to ethnic minorities;"




REPORT on eliminating gender stereotypes in the EU - A7-0401/2012
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I just dont get why so many femists want to ban displays instead of taking action to promote new ones.

Instead of trying to ban displays they should use the already existing freedom to put displays up. They could support some new cartoon that displays confident women that are not "that hot" and that demonstrate the ideals they want, they should support female scriptwritters and they could do so with a legal binding that the movie will pass bechdel test.

Trying to ban things that already exists sounds to me like giving up a battle before fighting it.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I just dont get why so many femists want to ban displays instead of taking action to promote new ones.

Instead of trying to ban displays they should use the already existing freedom to put displays up. They could support some new cartoon that displays confident women that are not "that hot" and that demonstrate the ideals they want, they should support female scriptwritters and they could do so with a legal binding that the movie will pass bechdel test.

Trying to ban things that already exists sounds to me like giving up a battle before fighting it.

Where do you see anything about banning "displays", apart from sexualized images of underage girls and porn?

Also, since when is the EU a feminist organization?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Where do you see anything about banning "displays", apart from sexualized images of underage girls and porn?

Also, since when is the EU a feminist organization?

I was talling more in general. The things I read and see of feminism have focused on what things they dont want to see on TV, I was talking about that.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I was talling more in general. The things I read and see of feminism have focused on what things they dont want to see on TV, I was talking about that.

I'm confused. Previously you explicitly stated you've never read anything by feminists because you can't afford it. So where is this notion coming from?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I'm confused. Previously you explicitly stated you've never read anything by feminists because you can't afford it. So where is this notion coming from?

I said I never read books on the subject, I did have two feminist teachers and every time I see a feminist talking on youtube 9 out of 10 has something to do with displays of women in the media that they dont talk. Feminist frequency also mostly deals with this.
 
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