Pedophilic Culture

[Kooky]

Teaching women to not get raped is rape culture? I think not teaching them to not get raped is more problematic. The necessity to do so may be unfortunate but I don't think it helps to ignore reality.

I think the idea here is that by teaching women to not get raped, you are putting the onus on women not to get raped.
Given that it is the rapists who are the moral agents in such a situation, a much less iffy approach would be to teach men not to rape women (and women not to rape men) and treat all women with respect instead, don't you think?

 

[Kooky]

Who else holds the responsibility for a woman to not get raped, if not herself? Rapists? Good luck.

Last time I checked, it was criminals who are usually responsible for committing crimes, not their victims.

If we can teach people not to steal, I think we can manage to teach people not to rape.

 

[Revoltingest]

Teaching women to not get raped is rape culture? I think not teaching them to not get raped is more problematic. The necessity to do so may be unfortunate but I don't think it helps to ignore reality.

Oh, yer gonna get it for that attitude.
Recommending taking precautions against rape is seen
by many as blaming them. But would they argue against
giving advice such as...
- Don't accept drinks from people you don't really trust.
It's not called the "date rape drug" for nothing.
- Consider self defense, eg, pepper spray.
- Stay sober at parties...especially good advice for
young people.

Too many people proffer the sole solution as training
men (not "people") to not rape. Setting aside the
sexist view that all men (& no women) are potential
rapists, what we really need is training for all people
to respect the bodily autonomy of others, & to take
responsibility for their own safety. It's not either/or.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Last time I checked, it was criminals who are usually responsible for committing crimes, not their victims.

If we can teach people not to steal, I think we can manage to teach people not to rape.

Rape isn't something people do by accident. Some people are just sick and enjoy harming people for the thrill of it. They know society views rape as wrong, but they don't care. So it's as stupid and a waste of time as teaching people not to murder. Instead, women and other vulnerable groups should arm themselves and learn self-defense in general. Take care of yourself and don't rely on others, even the police, to protect yourself. That's actually good advice for all people.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Spoiler: Vulgarity

View attachment 51155

Don't let your teenage/pre-teen kids dress like they are going to Studio 54 to Club. Let's also stop marketing make-up to teens and children too.

What really disturbs me is the child beauty pageants, which are just disgusting. JonBenet Ramsey ****. And now the child drag queen crap, but that's happening to boys. It's all sick.

 

[Revoltingest]

Rape isn't something people do by accident.

If I may quibble a wee bit....
It can happen though, at least for the legal definition of rape.
Suppose 2 people have sex, & both are drunk. One party
to the act could be too impaired to judge consent by the other,
who'd be too impaired to grant it. I can imagine other scenarios.

Young people get too little training how
to deal with the dangers that await them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If I may quibble a wee bit....
It can happen though, at least for the legal definition of rape.
Suppose 2 people have sex, & both are drunk. One party
to the act could be too impaired to judge consent by the other,
who'd be too impaired to grant it. I can imagine other scenarios.

Young people get too little training how
to deal with the dangers that await them.

That's not rape, in my opinion. Rape is violent coerced penetration (with a penis or other object) vaginally, anally or orally.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's not rape, in my opinion. Rape is violent coerced penetration (with a penis or other object) vaginally, anally or orally.

I see it that way too.
But the law is a strange animal.

 

[Mister Emu]

Last time I checked, it was criminals who are usually responsible for committing crimes, not their victims.

If we can teach people not to steal, I think we can manage to teach people not to rape.

You're ignoring reality if you think that:
We don't teach people not to rape. (We do.)
That rapists care when they are taught not to rape. (They don't.)

It behooves women who don't want to be raped to take ownership of their safety and behave as if they might be raped, because they might.

I've already addressed that taking responsibility for your safety isn't responsibility for being the victim of a crime. Criminals are responsible for their crimes. The reality of criminals existing means it is incumbent upon us individually to protect ourselves and not leave our safety in the hands of others. If your plan for not being raped is rapists not raping you, as I said, good luck.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I see it that way too.
But the law is a strange animal.

Yes. I'm not a fan of attempts to water down the definition of it. It's a very serious and possibly life-destroying thing. People have committed suicide over it, developed PTSD and other mental health problems. I don't want it to be taken less seriously. It needs to be taken more seriously.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I see some validity in parts of the list regarding "rape culture" but I do not agree with it in its entirety.

Sexual molestation of children is far more complex than child beauty pageants and makeup. Not all abusers are picking on children who wear make up and assault children who wear skimpy clothing. If that were true, we could stamp out child molestation by enforcing strict dress codes.

There is plentiful information out there about how molesters select their victims, and though there are outliers (there will be in every scenario in life), whether or not the child wears make up or dresses in skimpy clothing just doesn't appear on those lists.

I know, empathize and appreciate that people who are concerned about such things think they are doing something about the problem. But they're not.

Simply put, if you want to do something about child molestation, start observing how adults in your environment are interacting with children; whether or not they accept boundaries, whether or not they permit the child their own choice (going outside to play instead of playing video games with them, playing with their peers instead of playing with them, etc); then you will be empowered with real knowledge of real signs to do something real.

I suggest looking into www.stopitnow.org/ for common sense, evidence-based causes, signs and effective interventions.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

If we can teach people not to steal, I think we can manage to teach people not to rape.

We teach both, yet people still steal and rape. "Teach men not to rape" is another oversimplification of a complex issue; and while it is important to teach our young people socially appropriate boundaries and what "informed consent" is and is not, doing so won't stamp out rape no more than teaching our kids to "not take something that doesn't belong to you" stamps out theft.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think it's pretty vulgar and awful. I remember a controversy about some club or school having a performance of girls as young as 8 dressed up as 1890s era saloon girls.

That sounds hilarious more than sexual.

 

[Windwalker]

Who else holds the responsibility for a woman to not get raped, if not herself? Rapists? Good luck.

Do you believe that if a woman gets raped, it is because she was at fault?

 

[Mister Emu]

Do you believe that if a woman gets raped, it is because she was at fault?

Be aware that there is a real difference between taking ownership of your safety and blaming a victim for the crime committed against them.

 

[Deeje]

Rape isn't something people do by accident. Some people are just sick and enjoy harming people for the thrill of it. They know society views rape as wrong, but they don't care. So it's as stupid and a waste of time as teaching people not to murder. Instead, women and other vulnerable groups should arm themselves and learn self-defense in general. Take care of yourself and don't rely on others, even the police, to protect yourself. That's actually good advice for all people.

Good points.

But I believe that there are two distinct classes of women in this issue. We have a lot of football stars who have female followers (groupies) who virtually throw themselves at these sports idols and then when it gets too hot, they say "stop".... and he doesn't. No one seems to understand that these women are themselves just as much to blame for placing themselves in that situation, where the males in question are use to using these stupid girls for their own entertainment. I cannot feel sorry for them.

Sometimes they are gang raped because they are too drunk to know who they had sex with. Then they cry "rape" as if they are the innocent victims.....sorry, I don't agree with that. If you ask for it and you get what you asked for, how can complain to anyone? These women are responsible for all women being viewed as sex objects to these kinds of men, because they demean other women and give men the wrong idea.

We are not talking about innocent victims who were just minding their own business and some moron attacked them at random. They don't ask to be raped nor do they do anything to provoke unwanted attention. These are the genuine victims IMO.

But seriously, if you dress like a street walker, then don't be surprised if men treat you like one.
If you drink too much then don't be surprised if some guy takes advantage of you.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Here are my humble opinions on the opinions of this university of Rape Culture. There are some good points in the list, but a lot of the list, I see as nothing more than ultra-liberal Man-Bashing.

Blaming the victim (“She asked for it!”)

Yeah, I can see the point here.

Trivializing sexual assault (“Boys will be boys!”)

Absolutely. Fortunately, I don't think this is as common as the Ultra-Liberal wants us to be.

Sexually explicit jokes

Disagree, completely, Humor is a shock response and a coping mechanism.

Tolerance of sexual harassment

Yeah, I think I can agree.

Inflating false rape report statistics

This is very difficult to calculate, I would think. Falsely reporting rape is intrinsically immoral, and when it is done intentionally and maliciously, it should be criminalized. However, criminalizing this would present problems of its own (causing true cases of rape to not be reported for fear of the repercussions) so it's a difficult call.

Publicly scrutinizing a victim’s dress, mental state, motives, and history

Irrelevant, as we all are deserving of a legal defense in the court of law. Without such things as this, we descend into a witch hunt mentality; though I am certain that this process is very distressing to the victims of true rape. It is a necessary injustice. If I am accused of rape by my spouse because we are moving towards a divorce and she wants sole custody of the children, then I have the right, as a defendant, to question her motives. If I were promiscuous and I get a knock on my door from the police after a night out on the town because someone mentally disturbed accused me of rape and find out she has accused 3 others of the same, I have the right to question her history and mental state. Without this, a person is convicted upon an accusation. It is a necessary injustice to one in order to preserve justice for the many.

Gratuitous gendered violence in movies and television

Evidence that video games, moves, etc. produce results of violence and sexual violence is so scant that it is laughable. Though objectionable, it is protected under our 1st Amendment, and should be. In fact, the University of Hawaii performed an analysis comparing the availability of porn in a given society to the cases of violent sexual assault. They found, as opposed to the cultural narrative, that the more prevalent pornography is in a society (and the more sexually repressed a society is), the higher the cases of violent sexual assault. Censorship, can be argued, can cause the opposite of the intended effect.

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1999-effects-of-pornography.html

Defining “manhood” as dominant and sexually aggressive

Disagree. Completely. Not that I disagree with this definition of "manhood", but I see no reason why someone can't define manhood under these criteria while simultaneously defining "manhood" as one who respects the person and boundaries of others. I fail to see why these are mutually exclusive.

Defining “womanhood” as submissive and sexually passive

Disagree. I don't see what this has to do with rape, but I can capitulate that this definition of "womanhood" is ridiculous.

Pressure on men to “score”

This is childish behavior that teens should have outgrown into manhood; but again, I don't see why "pressure on men to score" is mutually exclusive with "pressure on men to respect a woman's person and boundaries". In other words, "Go score, Dude, but do it by the rules or else we'll kick your arse".

Pressure on women to not appear “cold”

I don't see this as much about rape as I do about gender role stereotypes. Women are their own person and have the right to be "cold" if that is their nature.

Assuming only promiscuous women get raped

Not sure if this is "rape culture", denial, or stupidity.

Assuming that men don’t get raped or that only “weak” men get raped

Agreed. Female on male, and male on male rapes are sadly underreported.

Refusing to take rape accusations seriously

OK, I can ride with this, provided that "refusing to take rape accusations seriously" doesn't mean "refusing to take rape accusations skeptically". Innocent until proven guilty, even if the accusation is rape.

Teaching women to avoid getting raped

Utterly ridiculous. Teaching women to see signs in one's personality that indicates a tendency to rape or avoiding situations where she is vulnerable is certainly not "rape culture". It is empowering women with the tools needed to see to their own safety. It's no different than teaching children "stranger danger", educating on seat belts and drunk driving, or looking both ways in crossing the street. It is sad that we live in a world where we have to teach each other how to protect ourselves from our fellow human beings and I wish this wasn't the case; but that is the world we live in, and failing to do so unconscionable.

 

[The Hammer]

That's not rape, in my opinion. Rape is violent coerced penetration (with a penis or other object) vaginally, anally or orally.

Doesn't have to require violence or coercion.

None of those things occured when I was raped, yet it still occured. Unless your telling me it didn't. Which is news to my therapists.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Doesn't have to require violence or coercion.

None of those things occured when I was raped, yet it still occured. Unless your telling me it didn't. Which is news to my therapists.

There's different forms of sexual assault. Forcing yourself on an unconscious person is certainly a form of coercion, too.

 

[Heyo]

Given that it is the rapists who are the moral agents in such a situation, a much less iffy approach would be to teach men not to rape women (and women not to rape men) and treat all women with respect instead, don't you think?

Of course. But that is the kind of magical thinking that gets women raped now. The reality is that some men missed class when treating women with respect was taught. Ignoring reality is never good.
And I think more women need to be taught to not get raped - literally and figuratively. As in "not getting taken advantage of". The rape culture is the one promoting women as passive, weak, push-overs. Promote the image that you'll get your balls kicked when you try to take advantage of a woman, and rapists will flee the country.