Sabour
Well-Known Member
It was from the video posted in the thread, I assumed that to be correct for the sake of argument. But you are spot on.
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People are being manipulated into hating Muslims
- Thread starter Theweirdtophat
- Start date
It was from the video posted in the thread, I assumed that to be correct for the sake of argument. But you are spot on.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
I feel as if we need to stay united against those who manipulated us for decades. Centuries rather. The radicals are a threat but they are definitely not the main threat. I will say that even though I am a Druid and I disagree with some parts in the Quran, I do agree with some things in the Quran and recognize some truth in it, as well as in other scriptures, like the New Testament, Torah, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh scriptures and many things in pagan religions like Druidry, Heathenry, and so forth. I am wise enough to know there are good Muslims as well as bad.
I feel as if they are trying to use Muslims to distract the Non-Muslims and divide both groups. Much like how they are trying to divide whites and blacks with the way they report white on black crimes. They act as if their race or religion had something to do with it, which it didn't. A lunatic is still a lunatic, no matter their race or religion. We need to recognize this.
I feel as if they are trying to use Muslims to distract the Non-Muslims and divide both groups. Much like how they are trying to divide whites and blacks with the way they report white on black crimes. They act as if their race or religion had something to do with it, which it didn't. A lunatic is still a lunatic, no matter their race or religion. We need to recognize this.
You are awfully close to saying that Islam is not at all a religion or worth of any consideration, you know.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I am saying that the minority doesn't reflect what Islam is. And the best way to judge Islam is by looking for what it stands
Marsh
Active Member
The terrorists are killing other Muslims, yes, but not just any Muslims. They are killing non-Sunnis. Just as evangelical Christians think other Christians are not true Christians, so too the ISIS terrorists who are Sunnis think other Muslims are apostates from the true faith. They are so deeply religious that they are willing to murder those who they think have strayed too far from the Prophet's message. You should call them Jihadists. Your claim that Muslim extremists are not truly Muslim is political correctness run amok.
Indeed.
It is the majority, with its strong bias and worrisome adherence to superstition and xenophoby, that worries me.
There is a reason why the violent minorities thrive in Islam (and to a lesser extent Christianity) far more than in any other group currently in existence.
Not coincidentally, the history of Islam has ever been plagued by similar conflicts, despite its stern insistence in that it is being "oppressed" by "foreigners".
And that would be double standards, unreigned theism, a refusal to take a stand against fanaticism, and the perpetuation of imperialistic and tribalistic traits that are way past their welcome.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Not true, the suicidal bombers don't pick up who to kill, Sunnis are dying as well.
Agondonter
Active Member
You should read more; learn the history of Islam.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
People are being manipulated into hating Muslims.
Remove "Muslims" and insert "each other."
Remove "Muslims" and insert "each other."
Marsh
Active Member
When Sunnis set off bombs in markets they choose predominantly Shia markets in which to do the damage. It would be pointless to deliberately kill your own. I don't know how many times I've heard it -- 'The bomb went off in a Shia neighbourhood.'
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blue taylor
Active Member
Do you even know the message of Islam? Please tell us. Even Muslims will give you conflicting answers.
Marsh
Active Member
Maajid Hawaz, in conversation with Sam Harris (Islam and the Future of Tolerance, 2015), puts the world population of Islamists (Muslims seeking world domination of Islam) at near 25%. The low estimate, preferred by some, is 15% (p. 22).
Marsh
Active Member
This article in The Atlantic magazine explains that, if anything, ISIS is following Islam in its purest form. I believe it. My son has read the Koran in its entirety and agrees with the judgement of the magazine. The link is below.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
It should be noted that the number is unavoidably questionable and (one would certainly hope and perhaps fear) susceptible to change due to many factors, including PR.
It can be tough to tell who is seeking world domination of Islam from those who need it badly, as well as from those who would welcome it very much.
The number itself is of lesser significance IMO.
The virtual absence of evidence of awareness of what such domination would entail and of proper challenge to the notion is much more of a worry.
So is the depressing frequency of rote claims that are supposed to be reassuring but in reality mean nothing. For instance, statements that "there is no compulsion in religion" that do not even attempt to clarify what it is supposed to mean, let alone comment on the rather self-evident existence of well-nurtured compulsion in Islam (one would wonder what is it that Islamic authorities do that does not ever involve compulsion, even while they call for the removal of personal freedoms and the death of infidels).
It does not help that far as explanations for the violent behavior of terrorists go, we have nearly nothing offered from Muslims except insinuations and reassurances that they somehow are not truly Muslims - complete with questions of whether they are not secretly atheists, no less.
blue taylor
Active Member
Perhaps you should read the Koran in it's entirety and tell us about it. Stop being lazy.
I'm calling your bluff. Are we to expect the Qur'an to be somehow significantly different from what those who swear by it assure us that it is? Or from what it seems to be from a casual reading?
Is it somehow our fault that those who present it as a worthy scripture can't provide argumentation that convinces their own, even?
There is only so much allowance to be made for lack of direct awareness of things.
Marsh
Active Member
Islamists in Hawaz's definition include those who want to see Islam dominate the world, but themselves may not approve of using force. In the book he is very thorough in explaining why he thinks this number is accurate. I don't know if you are familiar with him or not? He is a former Islamic extremist and was involved in recruiting Pakistani army officers in preparation for a coup. The coup attempt failed and he fled to Egypt were he was arrested. He spent years in prison were he was eventually de-radicalized.
My impression of the Koran is that it seeks world dominance. It is part of the faith, Luis.LuisDantas said:
It would entail the worldwide destruction of the Jews, for one thing. In Islamic eschatology the end times will not arrive until the last Jews are killed. The Koran says that the very rocks will call out to kill a Jew if one attempts to hide behind them.LuisDantas said:
Agreed. There is a principle in Islam called abrogation, whereby earlier Koranic passages are nullified by later ones (which becomes necessary as Mohammad so frequently made later pronouncements that contradicted earlier ones). That there should be no compulsion in religion is an earlier claim that is abrogated by later passages.LuisDantas said:
I hadn't heard that latter remark -- asserting that some terrorists are atheists.LuisDantas said:
What I do notice, even among very devout Christians, is the claim that those not practicing the same version of Christianity as themselves, are not truly Christian. Thus among many evangelicals, Catholics -- and a whole host of others -- are not true Christians. I see the same as being true among Muslims. Any who claim that the terrorists are not true Muslims are simply so devout they just don't recognize anyone who interprets Islam differently from themselves as being Muslim. That is why ISIS frequently kills Shia Muslims -- they view them as apostates. It is a problem across much of the Muslim world, and because of the nature of the Koran I just don't see any easy solution.
It happened here in these foruns at least once. Even more frequent is the plain statement that ISIS goes against the teachings of Islam and therefore are not true Muslims.
It is too bad that they just won't agree. Apparently it falls to those with no interest in Islam to sort it out and clean their mess.
So much for the perfect religion coming directly from God.
You and me both, brother.
So it seems. What does somewhat cheer me up is that ultimately religion is always wiser and better than its own scripture, since it is after all practiced by people.
Even Islam, which flat out claims the opposite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_violence
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx)
109 verses of violence.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm
10 top reasons Islam is not a religion of peace.
I could post lots more but you know who to google violence of Islam.
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Religion of peace?
No.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx)
109 verses of violence.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm
10 top reasons Islam is not a religion of peace.
I could post lots more but you know who to google violence of Islam.
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Religion of peace?
No.
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