Perceptions of Islam

[astarath]

To focus on details that spread hate and anger, this is not of God and holds no will to his purpose. Muslims hold high regard for Mohammed because God held him in high regard. If he is worthy of God's love and respect then how much more is he worthy of ours?

 

[XAAX]

Don't base you knowledge on heresay. Is there any evidence in the Quran to say the prophet Muhammed married an eight year old? I think not.
Apparently, there is a whole thread on this. Perhaps whoever knows the link can post it for XAAX propaganda.

Oh, ok...this is propaganda now Laila? You are the first of 4 other muslims who have answered to say this. I came across this information from a muslim site. I will go back and find the URL. I don't know if it is true or not, that is why I am asking.

 

[Laila]

Oh, ok...this is propaganda now Laila? You are the first of 4 other muslims who have answered to say this. I came across this information from a muslim site. I will go back and find the URL. I don't know if it is true or not, that is why I am asking.

Sincerely sorry if I was harsh didn't realise you were merely asking a question.

 

[XAAX]

To focus on details that spread hate and anger, this is not of God and holds no will to his purpose. Muslims hold high regard for Mohammed because God held him in high regard. If he is worthy of God's love and respect then how much more is he worthy of ours?

I am voicing an opinion on what I find disturbing. If you want to view it as hate then that is your interpretation. I hold him in no higher regards than any man. I am asking for a question to be answered, not for people to jump up and start claiming it was ok because of how great he was. Do you have children Astarath? If so, would you have a problem with a man in his mid 50’s marrying your daughter when she was 10? Just curious…Oh, God said it was ok though…the man told you so…:sarcastic

 

[astarath]

I am voicing an opinion on what I find disturbing. If you want to view it as hate then that is your interpretation. I hold him in no higher regards than any man. I am asking for a question to be answered, not for people to jump up and start claiming it was ok because of how great he was. Do you have children Astarath? If so, would you have a problem with a man in his mid 50’s marrying your daughter when she was 10? Just curious…Oh, God said it was ok though…the man told you so…:sarcastic

This is the point to which you lay confused, the man was deemed worthy of respect by God. That does not say that his actions were all with integrity and without sin. Moses was a murderer and a worshipper of false idols, yet he was deemed worthy to be the deliverer of God's people. Throughout the whole story of God's people those of sin are called to do God's work. Those that do God's work and because of their adherence to his word are remembered as honored and respected by God. If they are worthy of God's respect than who am I to deny them that same respect, because I would not dare to presume my judgement of character greater than God's. And to ask the last part yes I have two daughter's and if God told me they are to marry two withered decrepit old men and that is his will, I would allow it because I am in no position to deny God's will. I would never dare be so presumptious as to think my own process of reasoning greater than God's. I would not understand why but also I know that it is not neccessary for me to know. All that is neccessary is to follow God's will for he alone knows the true purpose of his works.

 

[Laila]

Regarding the muslim sites you mentioned XAAX I hope the following helps:

The source of the information, regarding his marriage to a 10 year old, can only be the hadiths books which are nothing but a secondary source. It has no support in Quran. It does not make practical sense. Any person at the age of ten is still a child who is incapable of taking crucial decisions which are essential for marriage under Quranic guidance, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues. Further, marriage involves taking serious responsibilities on the part of both the spouses concerning the upbringing of the family, which a child of the age of 6 or 8 or whatever is incapable of taking.
Using logic and the information we have in the Quran we can say that is neither true nor sensible. Since Muhammed strictly adhered to the Quran we can say that his marriage to a 6/8/9/10 year old is nothing but heresay.

 

[*Paul*]

Go to Saudi Arabia, the place on earth where Islam began, where it's holiest shrine is, this is where true Islam is practiced if anywhere on earth where the population is all Muslim or near enough.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/saudi_arabia/concerns.html

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/saudi/justice.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_religious_freedom_in_Saudi_Arabia

If you want to make up a new religion and call it peacful, go ahead but Islam is a well established religion and is given full liberty to be practiced in Saudi Arabia, clearly different to the one the propagandists try to portray here and elsewhere in the west.

 

[Laila]

carry on Paul, it doesn't change the Quran and it doesn't change Islam.

 

[astarath]

Paul, christians across the world hold as much anger and violence to their credit as any other faith out there. Ghandi sums it up pretty nicely" I like your Christ but not your christians, your christians are so unlike your Christ" We are told not to judge for Abba alone is judge. We are told to love but that is not the action shown in spreading hate among the faiths. Instead of focusing on those who chose to be ignorant to the true meaning of the Quran and the will of God rather focus on those who act true in Islam and perhaps if this is what we can all do to all faiths we can build a kingdom worthy of God.

 

[applewuud]

According to Karen Armstrong (a former nun) in "Islam: A Short History", women without male protectors in tribal societies were extremely vulnerable, and plural marriage was a way of saying, "this woman is in our tribe, you can't abuse her." In this light perhaps the marriage was for this purpose. It was a common tradition for orphans without relatives.

 

[XAAX]

This is the point to which you lay confused, the man was deemed worthy of respect by God. That does not say that his actions were all with integrity and without sin. Moses was a murderer and a worshipper of false idols, yet he was deemed worthy to be the deliverer of God's people. Throughout the whole story of God's people those of sin are called to do God's work. Those that do God's work and because of their adherence to his word are remembered as honored and respected by God. If they are worthy of God's respect than who am I to deny them that same respect, because I would not dare to presume my judgement of character greater than God's. And to ask the last part yes I have two daughter's and if God told me they are to marry two withered decrepit old men and that is his will, I would allow it because I am in no position to deny God's will. I would never dare be so presumptious as to think my own process of reasoning greater than God's. I would not understand why but also I know that it is not neccessary for me to know. All that is neccessary is to follow God's will for he alone knows the true purpose of his works.

You make my point all to well. You know these things about these people that "god deemed worthy', yet you believe it. Well more power to you. Just keep believing what others tell you to be truth. I personally believe god would think to highly of murderers and child molesters, maybe we just have different ideas of what god is.

 

[XAAX]

Regarding the muslim sites you mentioned XAAX I hope the following helps:

The source of the information, regarding his marriage to a 10 year old, can only be the hadiths books which are nothing but a secondary source. It has no support in Quran. It does not make practical sense. Any person at the age of ten is still a child who is incapable of taking crucial decisions which are essential for marriage under Quranic guidance, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues. Further, marriage involves taking serious responsibilities on the part of both the spouses concerning the upbringing of the family, which a child of the age of 6 or 8 or whatever is incapable of taking.
Using logic and the information we have in the Quran we can say that is neither true nor sensible. Since Muhammed strictly adhered to the Quran we can say that his marriage to a 6/8/9/10 year old is nothing but heresay.

Thank you...That is what I was trying to figure out. So what does the Quran say about the this exactly?

 

[XAAX]

According to Karen Armstrong (a former nun) in "Islam: A Short History", women without male protectors in tribal societies were extremely vulnerable, and plural marriage was a way of saying, "this woman is in our tribe, you can't abuse her." In this light perhaps the marriage was for this purpose. It was a common tradition for orphans without relatives.

You see, this is a good explanation of what I was asking. If this were the reason it makes a different meaning all together....Thanks Apple

 

[Laila]

Thank you...That is what I was trying to figure out. So what does the Quran say about the this exactly?

Sorry I'm having a dumb moment, tell me exactly what you wish to know (from the Quran) and I'll try my best to answer.

 

[XAAX]

Sorry I'm having a dumb moment, tell me exactly what you wish to know (from the Quran) and I'll try my best to answer.

Trust me, I believe very little of what I read from single sources on the internet or in books....Everyone has an opinion and love to throw them around as facts. What I was curious of is if it does make reference to who the girl was as far as age and reason for marriage. The site I was reading from, to me, made it sound horrible. That was why I was shocked that I had not heard this before. Then to make it worse the other Muslims I have asked avoided the question all together or tried to side step it, making it all the more strange.

Thanks

 

[TashaN]

What I was curious of is if it does make reference to who the girl was as far as age and reason for marriage. The site I was reading from, to me, made it sound horrible. That was why I was shocked that I had not heard this before. Then to make it worse the other Muslims I have asked avoided the question all together or tried to side step it, making it all the more strange.

Thanks

I guess i'm the one whom you talked to and you thought that i was avoiding your question.

Well, first of all, you have to know that Muslims don't have the right to approve or deny anything based on their own desires but only through what evidence they might have at hand about it. That's why when you asked me about her age i told you that i can give you right away a link to a thread where i answered this question before in details but you thought i was avoiding the question.

Nevertheless, still you don't know why there wasn't a direct yes or no for this question, isn't it?

That's because i wasn't there with them before 1400 years a go to know how old she was, plus that there are various opnions about how old she was. But the most important thing is that, Muslims don't care about this issue because our time is not like their time in the past and we can't judge what we can't see.

Now to the answer for your question, you will find it in this link below:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27316&page=2

Post # 80.

I hope this will answer your question.

 

[jamaesi]

There is nothing in the Qur'an about Aisha's age at marriage.

Even the hadeeths about her are not accepted throughout the Muslim faith. They're weak hadiths and probably passed down/translated inccorectly. From current research, Aisha was probably anywhere from 12-23 when she was married and then a few years after that the marriage was consummated.

Furthermore, this marriage wasn't arranged out of "lust" or "perversion" but for political ties.


The only ones who seem to latch on to these very disputed hadiths as absolute truth are critics of Islam, and no wonder!

 

[XAAX]

There is nothing in the Qur'an about Aisha's age at marriage.

Even the hadeeths about her are not accepted throughout the Muslim faith. They're weak hadiths and probably passed down/translated inccorectly. From current research, Aisha was probably anywhere from 12-23 when she was married and then a few years after that the marriage was consummated.

Furthermore, this marriage wasn't arranged out of "lust" or "perversion" but for political ties.


The only ones who seem to latch on to these very disputed hadiths as absolute truth are critics of Islam, and no wonder!

Well I am no critic of Islam any more than I am a critic of other religions. I heard the basics and was asking for clarification. Just a simple question which has been answered by a few others further up....thank you...

 

[IntroC]

It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world. Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.

What do you consider antisocial elements???
You say its a religion of peace that teaches its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world. Why then are so many innocent people murdered in the name of Allah? Actions speak louder than words. We hear all the time that it is a peacful religion we just don't see it.

 

[Laila]

Trust me, I believe very little of what I read from single sources on the internet or in books....Everyone has an opinion and love to throw them around as facts. What I was curious of is if it does make reference to who the girl was as far as age and reason for marriage. The site I was reading from, to me, made it sound horrible. That was why I was shocked that I had not heard this before. Then to make it worse the other Muslims I have asked avoided the question all together or tried to side step it, making it all the more strange.

Thanks

There are many historical opinions about Lady Aisha's age at the time of marriage however there are also many discrepancies and therefore they are very inaccurate.

There are two good books you can read for an historical background, although the books are good - again one book says she was 6 the another 7 and both say the marriage was not consumated until years later, therefore there is still inconsistency.
Since the material (sources taken from hadith) is inconsistent it is something that muslims should not take for the truth without scrutiny.

Recommended books for your interest:
The life of Muhammad(his life based on the earliest sources) by Tahia Al-Ismail

The messenger (the meanings of the life of Muhammad) by Tariq Ramadhan.

Now, muslims believe the Quran as the truth so looking from this perspective let us learn what we can about Lady Aisha.

The only thing I have found (unless I've missed something) regarding Lady Aisha is the story about when she was accused of committing adultery by a group of people spreading malice. There is no mention of Lady Aisha's age at the time of marriage or age of marriage in general. So then we look at what we do know about marriage in the Quran.

Conditions of marriage (a brief summary)
Marriage means taking crucial decisions which are essential for a long marital life as per Quran, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues. Further, marriage involves taking serious responsibilities on the part of both the spouses concerning the upbringing of the family, which needs a degree of maturity that can best be judged by the people closer to the individual getting married.

It is not sensible then to presume that Aisha was a little girl. Muhammed followed the Quran and therefore according to the Quran it is unthinkable and unfeasible that Lady Aisha was a little girl.

Age of marriage is not mentioned by numbers in the Quran, but God establishes big clear standards that indicate that marriage can happen when maturity was achieved. Therefore we can stipulate that Aisha was not 6/7/8/9 or 10 years old, as many muslim websites/books have stated.

Another point is that the true numerical figure has been lost in translation from arabic to persian then to urdu text. Again this is just story telling like the information we have about Lady Aisha's age at marriage.

I hope this helps let me know if you have any other questions.