Perceptions of Islam

[thinker_of_elves]

Don't worry, you will find me friendly and fulfilling the criteria in which you want to discuss. If you see there are people on this thread, whom I am answering in the same way. You are welcome with what ever you have. Unless and until you discuss, rather than attacking.


Yes, brother (if you mind me calling you brother, tell me I will change it) you are right, you judge a religion by looking at it's followers, but what will you do when it's followers are only followers for name sake, they don't follow the religion, but only claim that they do, they infact don't know the ABC of the religion they claim to follow. If you have read my posts, I compared judging Islam by it's followers with judging a car by placing a person behind it's steering who doesn't know how to drive. In such a case if you judge Islam by it's followers, sorry to say, but you will be doing injustice to Islam. If you really want to judge Islam by it's followers, judge it by looking at the true Muslim, and that is Muhammed.

So I have to judge Islam on one person, who lived about 1400 years ago? That my friend is quite ridiculous. But if I have to, then please explain why he married a 6 year old, and concecrated that marriage when she was 9? Hardly the actions of someone I would wish to base my moral standards on.

 

[Judgement Day]

So I have to judge Islam on one person, who lived about 1400 years ago? That my friend is quite ridiculous. But if I have to, then please explain why he married a 6 year old, and concecrated that marriage when she was 9? Hardly the actions of someone I would wish to base my moral standards on.

It seems that you are referring to Aisha. Muhammad married her when she was 9. But the consummation was not until the consent age.

 

[thinker_of_elves]

It seems that you are referring to Aisha. Muhammad married her when she was 9. But the consummation was not until the consent age.

Ok...

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH BUKHARI
Bukhari's Hadith is considered authentic by the majority of Sunni Islamic scholars. It is second to the Quran in terms of importance. The central figure to approve and sign the translation is Dr. Amin Al-Masri, Ph.D. Cambridge University. He is the Advisor and Head of the Sharia Dept., at the College of Sharia and Islamic Studies in Mecca.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 7, #88:

"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309

Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….

FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD
Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam.

From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

FROM THE HISTORY OF TABARI
Tabari wrote the most authentic Islamic history. It covers 39 volumes. Tabari was one of the greatest Islamic scholars and the greatest Islamic Historian.
From Tabari, volume 7, page7:

"....my marriage (to Muhammad) was consummated when I was nine....."

From Tabari, volume 9, page 131
"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.

FROM THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ISLAM, under "Aisha". (pub. by E.J. Brill).
"Some time after the death of Khadija, Khawla suggested to Muhammad that he should marry either Aisha, the 6 year old daughter of his chief follower, or Sawda Zama, a widow of about 30, who had gone as a Muslim to Abyssinia and whose husband had died there. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both. It had already been agreed that Aisha should marry Djubayr Mutim, whose father, though still pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. By common consent, however, this agreement was set aside, and Muhammad was betrothed to Aisha.... The marriage was not consummated until some months after the Hidjra, (in April 623, 624). Aisha went to live in an apartment in Muhammad's house, later the mosque of Median. She cannot have been more than ten years old at the time and took her toys to her new home."

From the Muslim book "WOMEN IN ISLAM" by Said Abjullah Seif-Al-Hatimy, published by Islamic Publications in Lahore Pakistan:

"...(Aisha) She was the youngest of his wives. It is said that she was nine years of age when he married her."

 

[mehrosh]

So I have to judge Islam on one person, who lived about 1400 years ago? That my friend is quite ridiculous. But if I have to, then please explain why he married a 6 year old, and concecrated that marriage when she was 9? Hardly the actions of someone I would wish to base my moral standards on.

I was waiting for this question, It just came late. Well! many who want to insult Muhammed bring up this topic, for such people I have only one answer to give, many scholars explain it in different ways, some say no she was 18 some say something something....well leave that, I agree, on the basis of authentic sources, he married Aisha when she was a child of 6. Now I will show no prejudice, I will be neutral, just because I am a muslim, I will not defend his marriage.

But you know what, we are still not good critics of Islam, the best critics were the people who lived with Muhammed. The people who didn't accept Islam, they criticized Islam to such extent that they could do anything to degrade Muhammed and Islam. Before Muhammed announced Prophethood, they all loved him and regarded him as the most honest person of the most reputed tribe in Arabia "The Quraish" he was the nephew of their chief, and the person who played an important role, when he announced Prophethood he and his followers were tortoured to such an extent that they were tortured in the worst manner, it is reported to be the worst of tortures in History of Arabia, but still Muhammed didn't stop, so they came up with a much effective Idea, they told his uncle, tell Muhammed that we will give you the most beautifull women, accept you as our leader give you everyting you can't even dream of, Muhammed's reply on this was "tell them that if they give the SUN IN MY RIGHT HAND AND MOON IN THE LEFT, I WILL NOT LEAVE MY MESSAGE".

You will be thinking what am I trying to tell you, and what does all this have to do with his Marriage with a little girl, Right? I will tell you that in a moment, first let me continue.

Ok...then they Boycotted Muhammed and the tribes which were in any way connected to him, this torture was so grave that a companion of the prophet say's that "once I went to answer the call of nature, and below my feet I felt something made a noice, it was leather, I picked it up, washed it, boiled, roasted and ate it"..the cries of women and children out of hunger were heard throughout the night. Still this was not enough for the biggest CRITICS of Islam to abondan the ban. When even this ban didn't seem to be working they planned to assasinate Muhammed, but were unsuccessful, he has left Makkah, on this they announcent the reward of 100 camels to any one who brings him Back Dead or Alive. But he escaped, now I don't want to explain how worse were the Jews of Madina, when Muhammed arrived there, to extreme extends they went to degrade Islam and Muhammed.

But despite how such useful and smart critics of Islam, no one raised a single finger on Muhammed's marriage to Aisha, Why? when the Pagans of Makkah and Jews of Madinah were bitting there nails, looking under each rock to find a single flaw with Muhammed and degrade him, Why didn't they raise the issue of his Marriage? The answer is, this was a normal thing then among the Arabs, whether be Jews or Pagan, and it is a normal thing among the Arabs even today. The bride would be given to the husband only when she reached puberty, There is not a single law of Biology which tells us that sexual activity after Pubtery is harmful for a female.Infact it is after puberty that a person gets attracted to the opposite sex. Thanks and Regards

 

[mehrosh]

Ok...

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH BUKHARI
Bukhari's Hadith is considered authentic by the majority of Sunni Islamic scholars. It is second to the Quran in terms of importance. The central figure to approve and sign the translation is Dr. Amin Al-Masri, Ph.D. Cambridge University. He is the Advisor and Head of the Sharia Dept., at the College of Sharia and Islamic Studies in Mecca.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 7, #88:

"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309

Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….

FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD
Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam.

From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

FROM THE HISTORY OF TABARI
Tabari wrote the most authentic Islamic history. It covers 39 volumes. Tabari was one of the greatest Islamic scholars and the greatest Islamic Historian.
From Tabari, volume 7, page7:

"....my marriage (to Muhammad) was consummated when I was nine....."

From Tabari, volume 9, page 131
"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.

FROM THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ISLAM, under "Aisha". (pub. by E.J. Brill).
"Some time after the death of Khadija, Khawla suggested to Muhammad that he should marry either Aisha, the 6 year old daughter of his chief follower, or Sawda Zama, a widow of about 30, who had gone as a Muslim to Abyssinia and whose husband had died there. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both. It had already been agreed that Aisha should marry Djubayr Mutim, whose father, though still pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. By common consent, however, this agreement was set aside, and Muhammad was betrothed to Aisha.... The marriage was not consummated until some months after the Hidjra, (in April 623, 624). Aisha went to live in an apartment in Muhammad's house, later the mosque of Median. She cannot have been more than ten years old at the time and took her toys to her new home."

From the Muslim book "WOMEN IN ISLAM" by Said Abjullah Seif-Al-Hatimy, published by Islamic Publications in Lahore Pakistan:

"...(Aisha) She was the youngest of his wives. It is said that she was nine years of age when he married her."

Yes we agree with this...we accept the authentic sources of the Sunnah...

 

[thinker_of_elves]

The answer is, this was a normal thing then among the Arabs, whether be Jews or Pagan, and it is a normal thing among the Arabs even today. There is not a single law of Biology which tells us that sexual activity after Pubtery is harmful for a female.Infact it is after puberty that a person gets attracted to the opposite sex. Thanks and Regards

Just because it was and is a cultural norm, does not make it right. Muhammed was 52, Aisha was 9 when they had sex. He was a peadophile in any langauge.

Oh. And it isnt after puberty when attraction starts. I was attracted to girls when I was 5/6.

Also, it isn't always the opposite sex.

 

[mehrosh]

Just because it was and is a cultural norm, does not make it right. Muhammed was 52, Aisha was 9 when they had sex. He was a peadophile in any langauge.

I disagree with you Sir, you have to be updated with your culture, otherwise your people will call you out dated....What is a peadophile,,,,can you tell me please...

Oh. And it isnt after puberty when attraction starts. I was attracted to girls when I was 5/6.

I just stated a scientific fact, now if you don't agree, you don't agree with science...

Also, it isn't always the opposite sex.

Normal people are attracted to opposite sex, because that is what is natural...Now don't wanna get into that..you can start a new thread on homosexuality..in the sexuality section

 

[thinker_of_elves]

I disagree with you Sir, you have to be updated with your culture, otherwise your people will call you out dated....What is a peadophile,,,,can you tell me please...

A paedophile(sorry I spelt it wrong) - You see, you're just getting facetious now. It means that Muhammed was a dirty old man. See 'Gary Glitter'

I just stated a scientific fact, now if you don't agree, you don't agree with science...

Waht an incredibly ludicrous leap of logic...Again

Normal people are attracted to opposite sex, because that is what is natural...Now don't wanna get into that..you can start a new thread on homosexuality..in the sexuality section

Normal? Normal is whatever is Homosexuality exists, which makes it normal, just as heterosexuality is.

 

[mehrosh]

A paedophile(sorry I spelt it wrong) - You see, you're just getting facetious now. It means that Muhammed was a dirty old man. See 'Gary Glitter'

[SIZE=-1]Definition of a Pedophile:[/SIZE]
​

[SIZE=-1]"Pedophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]"pe.do.phil.ia n [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object -- pe.do.phil.i.ac or pe.do.phil.ic adj." Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The diagnostic criteria for pedophilia according to American Psychiatric Association:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The person has acted on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The person is at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child or children in A.[/SIZE]
​

[SIZE=-1]DSM-III-R Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed 3, revised, copyright American Psychiatric Association.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]"In addition to their pedophilia, a significant number of pedophiles are concomitantly or have previously been involved in exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape". (Voyeurism’s the recurrent preoccupation with fantasized or acts that involve seeking out or observing people who are naked, or are engaged in grooming or in sexual activity". Synopsis of psychiatry, Harold I.Kaplan et al., 5th ed., pg360, Publishers: Williams and Wilkens, 1988[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Does the Prophet fit the above criteria of a pedophile?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]With the above criteria of a pedophile in mind, lets analyze the lifestyle of the prophet and his marriages.[/SIZE]
​

[SIZE=-1]Name of Bride[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Bride’s age at marriage[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Comments[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Khadija bint khawilad[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]40[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Twice widowed before[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Sauda Bint Zama[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]50[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Aisha bint Abu Bakr[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Started living with the prophet at the age of 9.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Hafsa Bint Umar bin Khattab[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]22[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Zainab bint Khuzaima[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]30[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Umm-I-Salma bint Abu Umayia[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]26[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Zainab Bint Jahash[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]38[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Juwaeria Bint Harith[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]20[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Umm-I-Habiba bint Abu Sufyan[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]36[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Marya Qibtiya bint shamun[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]17[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Virgin, Egyptian[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Safia bint Hayi bin Akhtab[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]17[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Raihana bint umru bin hanafa[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Not available[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Maimuna bint harith[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]36[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Widow[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Source: The Prophet of Islam, the Ideal Husband, by Syed Abu Zafar Zain, Kazi Publications, Lahore, Ist Ed., pg. 10-12[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1]Statistics from the above table:[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Percentage of his wives who were 17years and older = 91 %[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Percentage of his wives who were widows = 75%[/SIZE]
​

[SIZE=-1]Comment: The statistics show that the prophet’s marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore ‘a pedophile’s main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls’, which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet’s marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet’s life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a pedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marium).[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Moreover, according to the criteria in the references cited above in ‘Synopsis of Psychiatry’, a vast majority of pedophiles possess a history of exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape. Again, there is no single reference from either religious or secular sources that the noble Prophet ever indulged in such sadistic behavior (God forbid). This truth is observed and accepted by both Muslims and unbiased non-Muslims scholars.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." – Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras, 1932, p. 4.[/SIZE]

Muhammed was not a dirty Old Man, but the Last Messenger Of God, WHEN YOU SAY SOMETING, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVE IT
​

I'm sorry, but if anything, this whole thread has turned me even more away from this bigoted and self-obsessed religion.

Again you said something, without any defination. Here I would like to tell you, BRING YOUR PROOF IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL

 

[mehrosh]

MOD POST:

I first want to thank everyone who has posted so far for keeping the post civil and mature. In regards to being critical of a religion if you guys could continue to please civil and mature in your posting the staff would be very apprectiative. I am posting rule 4 on here as a reminder:

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http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item

The moderator has posted this on Page 4, you can debate, but you are voilated the rules of this forum, you can be reported for this act.

 

[Peace]

So I have to judge Islam on one person, who lived about 1400 years ago? That my friend is quite ridiculous. But if I have to, then please explain why he married a 6 year old, and concecrated that marriage when she was 9? Hardly the actions of someone I would wish to base my moral standards on.

This subject was already raised many times in RF. this was my answer :

At that time and in the desert environment they were living in, the girls reach the age of puberty at a very early age. So at the age of 9 the girl is considered already mature and adult, and if compared with nowadays, a girl of 9 years old then is a woman of 18 year old now . That's why you couldn't find in any book that people at time objected or criticized the Prophet peace be upon him for marrying the mother of believers, our mother Aicha, may Allah be pleased with her. This shows that it was something of the norm and culture of that time not only for Muslims but also other religions and for pagans, it's something very natural then. The mother of believers Safiya (may Allah be pleased with her) who was a Jew, before converting to Islam and married to our Prophet peace be upon him, she married Jew at the age of 9 as well. See it's something that was very common at that period.

The Prophet’s marriage to Aisha was an exceedingly happy one for both of them, and that this union was Divinely revealed:
Hadith narrated by Aisha: Allah’s Apostle said (to me), “You were shown to me in a dream. An angel brought you to me, wrapped in a piece of silken cloth, and said to me, ‘This is your wife,’ I removed the piece of cloth from your face, and there you were. I said to myself. ‘If it is from Allah, then it will surely be.’” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 57)

Aicha must be young, for she is the one who will pass the knowledge she learned form Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him to the coming generations. Many learned men companions, and followers of the Prophet also benefited from her wisdom. Abu Musa al-Ashari once said, “If we companions of the Messenger of God had any difficulty on a matter, we asked Aisha about it.” It is the claim of Islamic scholars that without Aisha, half of the Ilm-I-Hadith (understanding and knowledge of the Hadith and Islam) would have perished. Gifted with tremendous intelligence, extraordinary wisdom, and formidable memory, Aisha was one of the Prophet’s most devoted pupils and followed his every action and example. She was skilled in medicine, poetry, mathematics, and speaking. Aisha was never too reserved or shy to ask questions; this in itself teaches us the importance of questioning that which we do not understand. As Muhammad’s (pbuh) wife and close companion, she gained insight and knowledge such as no woman has ever acquired, and during her ten years of marriage as the loving wife of Muhammad (pbuh), Aisha’s moral fiber was built in an ideal and exceptional manner. She was an eyewitness to a number of revelations and had a clear idea of the circumstances in which they were revealed.

Peace

 

[thinker_of_elves]

The moderator has posted this on Page 4, you can debate, but you are voilated the rules of this forum, you can be reported for this act.

I am simply trying to make this fair. If you don't like what I say, I'll shut up...bye bye...and peace man.

 

[mehrosh]

I don't understand why people who run behind to abuse Muhammed use this as a weapon, they don't understand a simple point, and that is the girl who lived more than 1400 years ago cannot be physically or mentally equal to a girl of this era.

 

[mehrosh]

I am simply trying to make this fair. If you don't like what I say, I'll shut up...bye bye...and peace man.

I don't have a problem with what you said, but because you abused a man out of ignorance, even if you abuse your father here, I will protest. Abusing someone is something out of morals

 

[mehrosh]

[SIZE=-3]"I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." George Bernard Shaw,
[/SIZE]

 

[Judgement Day]

People are making a mistake when they try to compare the cultural norms of the past with today's reality.

 

[Light]

If you don't like what I say, I'll shut up....

Good for you, for we are addressing those with good morals and behaviors who want really to know the truth and want things made clear to them. There is no place for slanders here.

 

[mehrosh]

People are making a mistake when they try to compare the cultural norms of the past with today's reality.

They should remember, we are talking about religion here, not about cultures.

 

[thinker_of_elves]

[SIZE=-3]"I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." George Bernard Shaw,
[/SIZE]

He also said...
“Beware of the man whose God is in the skies”

 

[thinker_of_elves]

...and
“There are scores of thousands of human insects who are ready at a moment's notice to reveal the Will of God on every possible subject”

very apt