Perceptions of Islam

[thinker_of_elves]

My HOUSE, your welcome

Nice try. I mean a community, preferably a whole country. ANY religion, faith or way of life works well on a house by house level.

 

[Mike182]

Nice try. I mean a community, preferably a whole country. ANY religion, faith or way of life works well on a house by house level.

is any community perfect? can you say that the area you live in is perfect? the answer to that is no. however, this is not Islams fault, it is a fault in humanity.

 

[mehrosh]

if you will forgive my ignorance, i was unaware that the Bible and Islam were linked as such........ thanks for that!

You have my heartly welcome Mike

i know that after september 11th, and after the attacks on London, the islamic leaders in England worked in co-operation with christian leaders (of many denominations) to show religious unity AGAINST terrorism! seriously, don't let the media tell you what to think

in response to your idea that Islam is an out of date religion fo rmodern society, i will ask, how is a religion centred on peace out of date? show your evidence for your oppinion, and then we can debate.

Thanks for having said that Mike, yes you are right, although thinker of elves is against me quoting the Quran I will quote this verse "The one who kills one man (muslim or non-muslim) is as though he has killed the whole humanity, and if someone saves the life of one man (muslim or non-muslim) is as though he has saved the whole of humanity" I don't think I need to say something after this beautiful verse of the Quran accept the saying of Muhammed "The person who troubles the Jews and the Christians without reason, will be at enemity with me on the Day of Judgment"

Thanks a lot, and Regards

 

[mehrosh]

Nice try. I mean a community, preferably a whole country. ANY religion, faith or way of life works well on a house by house level.

No, community is perfect, even if it is of a thinker, or thiest, You are trying to judge Islam by its followers, many people have problem with my car example, but still I will give it again. If I give the lastest Model of BMW or Mercedes Benz (I am not advertising them) to someone how doesn't knows how to drive, and he goes and bangs it, whom will I blame, the car or the driver???

 

[mehrosh]

It is better if think of evles, you bring up any flaw in the teachings of Islam, don't run behind baseless statments

 

[thinker_of_elves]

It is better if think of evles, you bring up any flaw in the teachings of Islam, don't run behind baseless statments

As usual, it's impossible to argue with one so blinded.

 

[mehrosh]

As usual, it's impossible to argue with one so blinded.

Yes you are right, you are too blinded to come to sensible debate. Better let me attend to people who want to talk business..

 

[thinker_of_elves]

Yes you are right, you are too blinded to come to sensible debate. Better let me attend to people who want to talk business..

Sensible! Hah. You spout the Qur'an in arguments when I believe it is the ramblings of a madman. You fail to answer direct questions.

It is you who are blinded. You see through Qur'an-tinted spectacles and no matter what you see or hear, that will be that until you die...hopefully in peace and not as hundreds of others as a foolish martyr with promises of virgins from evil Clerics.

Peace and good day.

 

[mehrosh]

Sensible! Hah. You spout the Qur'an in arguments when I believe it is the ramblings of a madman. You fail to answer direct questions.

It is you who are blinded. You see through Qur'an-tinted spectacles and no matter what you see or hear, that will be that until you die...hopefully in peace and not as hundreds of others as a foolish martyr with promises of virgins from evil Clerics.

Peace and good day.

Ok, fine leave us blind people on our conditions, you need not worry about us. If you say that you are the President of America, you will not become on, thus just by saying something you cannot refute the truth.

 

[TashaN]

We all noticed that, when people fail to bring any wrong with the islamic teaching so they blame Muslims.

It's obvious that if someone didn't follow the law so he will do mistakes and Prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" told us that the Muslims at the end of time will be alot but useless because they don't follow the real teaching of Islam excatly and they are just Muslims "by name" but not real Muslims.

Regarding to the violent in Quran and the common misconception about a verse which some people might be confused with, it have been debated in one of the greaest threads where everybody have said all what he have against Islam and all their confusion have been vanished by reasonable answers from Quran itself and from our current life too.

First of all read post # 207 to understand that verse which talk somthing like seize them and slay them wherever ye find them.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23727&page=6

After that read the whole thread if you are still interested to know more about this issue.

I believe that the more people try to find mistakes about Islam, the more they get attracted to it. I can understand that many people are surprised how people enter to Islam by huge numbers everyday.

Muslims don't have alot of instiutions which drive people to enter to islam but this is the will of Allah almighty and people just submit when they find the clear signs in Quran that their heart can't deny.

If you have more questions about Islam but not Muslims so Quran itself can enlighten your day if you read it by your true pure heart.


Peace ...

 

[Peace]

It is you who are blinded. You see through Qur'an-tinted spectacles and no matter what you see or hear, that will be that until you die...

Call us blinded or call us whatever you want, we are happy with our religion Islam, we are sure 100% that Islam is the Truth sent as the last religion revealed to us by God through Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. We submit wholly and heartly to God's Will. Our reason and heart accept Islam and we are so content and happy and satisfied with it. All thanks and praise to Allah for guiding us to Islam which we consider as the greatest bounty and treasure besowed on us by the All Merciful God!!!

Peace

 

[mehrosh]

I too admire your tackling of these perceptions. A novel approach and kudo's to you for doing so. However, if you read what I am saying, you would understand that that is exactly what I am doing. I am judging Muhammed... not Islam directly. The logic being that if you "take out" the cornerstone, the ediface crumbles.

Thanks for you kindess, and kind words....thats fine with me, as long as you are trying to judge him, many don't want to judge, just pass statments and run away.

Dare I point out that some cars are built from defective designs? Surely you have heard of large scale factory recalls. Sorry, your allusion does not travel on solid ground. I DO understand what you mean though, lol. To an extent, I agree, but only to an extent.

Yes, I understand that, But i was talking about any other good car, seeing that many other people have problem with this example.

Yes that would be a bit silly to persue that angle with me. I am quite proud of our simian heritage. It is nothing to be ashamed of, unless of couse, people nowadays continue to behave like apes.

hmm...everyone has the right to stick to his/her beliefs, keep in mind that I am not here to let down anyone's belief, but only to tell people that Islam is not the way it is displayed in the media.

Double standards? What on earth, are you talking about?

I didn't mean that you are having double standards, but many people practice that specialy when it comes to Islam. I was just trying to stop it before it comes.

I do believe in a pychological energy geshtalt quite beyond our current, primitve modes, of understanding. To my strange perspective, one can learn to touch that incredible, undescribeable essence. Curiously, it is not all that hard a thing to do. You might want to read more on my humble view here. I particularly adore the first response from the beautiful Sammour. It fits my piece perfectly and I will always be in her debt. You will note that the document was originally released on Islam.com

I am sorry to say, but the website you gave me is one of the great works of the media where they try to maline Islam. Don't take me wrong, I don't wanna get into that discussion right now. I have read your views about God, It is your view of GOD, I have no right to say right or wrong, because thats your belief. But what I will do is that, try to explain the concept of God I have as a Muslim (remember we are talking about Islam in this thread, I have no intention to attack your belief) I understand that you don't believe in the Quran, I would have loved to touch that part before coming to this one, but now if we have started lets go on. Now this is my view of God

1) God is One and Only

There is no God accept One God, oh no, I am not saying this because the Quran tells me this (when you don't believe in the Quran) I am rather saying this out of Logic, because if there was more than One GOD, we would have been in great trouble. One would construct other would destroy. So that is something about which I will never doubt Inshallah....

2) God is absolute and Eternal

I cannot submit my will to someone who has flaws in himself, like some people even now claim that they are Gods. God has to be absolute and Eternal

3) God Begets not nor is He Begotten

( Here, I am not talking about anyone's religion, just telling Sir,YmirGF, what I believe in) God cannot be born of someone, because then he is no more a god but a son. Nor can He give Birth, because then I will call him a Mammal not God.

4) And there is none like unto Him

God cannot be like "anyone" because the moment you start comparing God with someone, He doesn't remain a God, rather becomes "anyone"

By What name do I call my God

I prefer calling my God "Allah" many people abuse this name, rather they don't understand that if they believe in God, they are abusing their own God, "Allah" means God, but I don't prefer calling Him that way, because, you can add an 's' to God and make is gods, where there is no plural of 'Allah'. If you add 'dess' to God, it becomes a female God, where there is no Gender for 'ALLAH' He is above all this. If you pre-fix tin before God, it becomes tin-God i.e. fake God, Allah is a unique word which does not conjure up any mental picture nor can be played around with.

God does not become Human

Many people argue, that when God can do anything why can't he take the form of a human? but then He can no longer be God, because the qualities of God and Humans are in many ways incompatible.

Hahaha. I know, you are trying very hard. Again, kudo's to you.
You really have to stop making assumptions. Root word: Assume = a.s.s+U+Me

I will put down making assumptions, once you make my job easy and put up a direct statment or question, because I have to read your post again and again just to understand what are we exactly talking about.

I also stated that I believe he was a bona fide genius. I stand by that. You need only read his words. In many ways, Muhammed was brilliant.

I agree with you he was intelligent, but the intelligence of Quran is far more superior than the intelligence of a mere human being.

However, when you examine his life and begin to unravel his revelations a darker side emerges. It is that darker side that first made me suspicious. I began to get an uneasy feeling about his long rants on the Hellfire as well as his reactions to his revelations.

Yes, I find it quite common among people who don't want to submit to God, that they find the idea of Hell the worst one. Well to agree with you, I had same ideas, but not after giving a deep thought. Muhammed's message was a glad tiding to some and a warning to some, Hell is that warning. If you are passing from a road, and I tell you, Sir! there is a radar at the end of the road, you may be fined, anyone will slow down if he wants to escape the fine, even if he thinks that I am the biggest liar, or maybe a very intelligent person who detected the rays of radar from the distance of a kilometer. I think it is much inteligent to take the warning if even one doesn't believe in the Quran or Muhammed, because it is better to be on the safe side, rather than finding the warning true.

Someone asked me, almost all religions talk about hell, then why are you telling me that accepting ISLAM is the only way to be on the safe side, and my answer is, every religion has a scriptures which tell them about hell and heaven, but which one will you believe in, if you have to, the scriptures with condratictions (human hands at work), or the scripture which is 100% pure from contractions and human changes.

The other thing for you to bear in mind is that I have researched the life of Muhammed from pro and con Islamic sites and from the Noble Qur'an, to my own satisfaction. I do my own thinking and do not rely on others to form my conclusions.

I am pleased to know that, but I disagree with you, many websites talk about Muhammed, but niether have they (their authors) have met Muhammed, nor me and you, Right? So according to me we must ask the peolpe who lived with Him, no one knows him better than the ones who lived with him next door, spend 40 years with him before revelation, the statments of the worst enemies of Islam, you must be knowing the famous ABU JAHEL, if you have read Muhammed's Biography you must be. On the battle field of Badr, before the battle, he said to one of his friends " By God! I know that if all this is from Muhammed he is not lying" but still he was the worst of his enemies, Why? because he didn't want to lose his position, how can he surrender 360 gods for ONE God, no way, how can he embrass the slave, love the poor, give women their rights 'we sell and purchase them in the market like sheeps, what the hell are you talking about', ......

Sane people do not hear rocks calling their name, nor do they see trees out for a stroll. Psychotics on the other hand... could very well report similar things.

If a person claims so, you cannot call him insane, niether can you call him sane, we believe in such miracles from the Prophet, but we don't boast on them, because all this has no scientific explaination, his ultimate Miracle is the Quran, the miracle of miracles. Psychotics have many mental disablities, and non such has been proved to be from the Prophet, his strategies, and the way he held the state, any psychotic cannot do all that. Infact he has been rated as the most influencian person in history and a psychotic is in no way eligible for such a position.

BTW: Did Muhammed ever learn to read and write?

I don't have knowledge about this, and that's why I left this question of yours at first. I will see what can I find in this regard, it is never too late to learn.

 

[mehrosh]

I believe that the more people try to find mistakes about Islam, the more they get attracted to it. I can understand that many people are surprised how people enter to Islam by huge numbers everyday.

Very true, many people study Islam to criticise and find mistakes in it, and turn up accepting it,

For example

Gary Miller, he studies Islam so that he can write books against Islam and promote himself and by the time he finished reading the Quran he became a Muslim.


Another Example

A journalist, Evan Ridley from Express magazine, England. She has written many articles against Islam, she went to Afganistan after 9/11 before the Afgan war to expose the horrible face of Islam and how muslims harrassed their women. To hide her identity she wore the dress of the women there and interviewed many women, and to her amazment she came to know that the women there were very happy and respected more than the women in the West. Soon she was arrested for 8-10 days and kept in jail, and there she learned about security system of Islam, special facilities and privacy given to women, when she was set free she promised that she will study Islam in detail once she goes back to her country. And soon she embraced Islam

Many people try to maline Islam

For example

Salman Rushdie, he said a lot of bad things to the Prophet, the Quran in his book and when this book was published the Media came forward to adverstise it. It is a policy of the Western media to advertise anything against Islam, now the western people as a result became curious and examined Islam and many of them found the truth and embraced Islam.

 

[Judgement Day]

Just because 'everyone' was practising paedophilia, does not make it right. A great number of things that went on in the past, we now know to be wrong, such as slavery and discrimination.

The difference is..is that slavery and discrimination was something wrong in the past and in the future. And please stop using that word 'paedophilia', as you have been explained over and over again, that Muhammad married a girl that was already considered as an adult at that time.

 

[Light]

Call us blinded or call us whatever you want, we are happy with our religion Islam, we are sure 100% that Islam is the Truth sent as the last religion revealed to us by God through Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. We submit wholly and heartly to God's Will. Our reason and heart accept Islam and we are so content and happy and satisfied with it. All thanks and praise to Allah for guiding us to Islam which we consider as the greatest bounty and treasure besowed on us by the All Merciful God!!!

Peace

completely true and 100% agree with you as does all Muslims.

 

[thinker_of_elves]

The difference is..is that slavery and discrimination was something wrong in the past and in the future. And please stop using that word 'paedophilia', as you have been explained over and over again, that Muhammad married a girl that was already considered as an adult at that time.

He was 50+, she was 9. It doesn't matter wether it was considered ok back then, it still makes him a paedophile. That is a fact. Aisha was considered an adult by the lusting males of the time. Muhammed was one of them. It doesn't matter how many times you say it was normal in the time. So was slavery. Both are now considered to be extremely evil acts. Muhammed commited evil acts, and you call him your saviour.

 

[Mike182]

He was 50+, she was 9. It doesn't matter wether it was considered ok back then, it still makes him a paedophile.

only if they had sex (which they would not have done until she came of age) and ONLY by todays standards :banghead3

geesh! you cannot judge 5th century acts by 21st century morality :banghead3

That is a fact. Aisha was considered an adult by the lusting males of the time. Muhammed was one of them. It doesn't matter how many times you say it was normal in the time. So was slavery. Both are now considered to be extremely evil acts. Muhammed commited evil acts, and you call him your saviour.

do you know the mind frame of a 5th century 9 year old? if not, how can you make these judgements?

 

[thinker_of_elves]

only if they had sex (which they would not have done until she came of age) and ONLY by todays standards <remove silly emoticons>

geesh! you cannot judge 5th century acts by 21st century morality <remove silly emoticons>

do you know the mind frame of a 5th century 9 year old? if not, how can you make these judgements?

They had sex at 9 - It says so in Islams own scriptures.

Sheesh. If you don't think that it is wrong, I pity you. He may very well have been doing something considered normal at the time, but I'd love to run a poll of decent minded people and see what they say...

Anyway, I'm gonna drop this issue. It's already been done to death, and I have found you can rarely sway a muslim.

 

[Mike182]

They had sex at 9 - It says so in Islams own scriptures.

Sheesh. If you don't think that it is wrong, I pity you. He may very well have been doing something considered normal at the time, but I'd love to run a poll of decent minded people and see what they say...

Anyway, I'm gonna drop this issue. It's already been done to death, and I have found you can rarely sway a muslim.

i think it's wrong in todays society.

morality is relative to scoial context, and person subjective interpritation - you cannot judge their acts!

 

[TashaN]

They had sex at 9 - It says so in Islams own scriptures.

Sheesh. If you don't think that it is wrong, I pity you. He may very well have been doing something considered normal at the time, but I'd love to run a poll of decent minded people and see what they say...

I really feel pity for you, your mind didn't move forward yet to discover the world.

I'll give a suloution.

Most of people around the world slay animals such as cows to eat it's meat. (obvious)

Now go for a visit to India and try just try to be shown as you were disrespectful to a cow, they will definitely put you down.

Now think of you tried to slay that cow to eat it, what will happen to you? they may burn you and your family alive for doing so. They praise animals and espcially the cow.

We all know that killing is somthing discusting but why we still killing those animals to eat it's meat? It has a soul, feelings and it's their right to exist in this life just like us.

It's the different in cultures and values toward issues.

You can eat meat, no? what about beef burger?

You will be called a monster in india (hindu areas) if you did so but you will be surprised if they did so and you are doing now the same as the indian who condemn eating this meat of the cow when you say that marriage at that time was bad because they marry small girls bla bla.

Read the history and learn how the people were living at that time and how nations were under various situations and circumstances like wars, diseases and their basic human values.

For instance, for me, i prefer to be killed 100 times (if i have this number of souls ) instead of committitng adultry. Yes i know, you will be like because some people, sex in thier life illegally outside the marriage relationship whether before marriage (and believe me, during marriage too) is so OK just like eating and drinking in their day life. Nevertheless, if they heard in the past before 1000 years for example that someone was doing this, they would stone him to death because it's strange and no one dare to do it (even in your own nation) but it's so ok now for many nations to do it.

Did you get it? No, not yet?

Do you know now why i feel pity for you?

Now, i would like just to remind my brothers and sisters in here by what Allah said in Quran:

And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!" (Quran 25:63)