Perceptions of Islam

[thinker_of_elves]

i think it's wrong in todays society.

morality is relative to scoial context, and person subjective interpritation - you cannot judge their acts!

I can judge what I want to. It's a free country (probably because it's not yet been taken over by any oppressive religion)

People change societys by realisation of what is going on is wrong. Slavery was rightfully banned. As was paedophilia. Just because they had no clue of that word, doesn't mean they weren't doing it. Their women were second class citizens, and in most muslim countries still are today.

 

[thinker_of_elves]

I really feel pity for you, your mind didn't move forward yet to discover the world.

I'll give a suloution.

Most of people around the world slay animals such as cows to eat it's meat. (obvious)

Now go for a visit to India and try just try to be shown as you were disrespectful to a cow, they will definitely put you down.

Now think of you tried to slay that cow to eat it, what will happen to you? they may burn you and your family alive for doing so. They praise animals and espcially the cow.

We all know that killing is somthing discusting but why we still killing those animals to eat it's meat? It has a soul, feelings and it's their right to exist in this life just like us.

It's the different in cultures and values toward issues.

You can eat meat, no? what about beef burger?

You will be called a monster in india (hindu areas) if you did so but you will be surprised if they did so and you are doing now the same as the indian who condemn eating this meat of the cow when you say that marriage at that time was bad because they marry small girls bla bla.

Read the history and learn how the people were living at that time and how nations were under various situations and circumstances like wars, diseases and their basic human values.

For instance, for me, i prefer to be killed 100 times (if i have this number of souls ) instead of committitng adultry. Yes i know, you will be like <remove idiot icon> because some people, sex in thier life illegally outside the marriage relationship whether before marriage (and believe me, during marriage too) is so OK just like eating and drinking in their day life. Nevertheless, if they heard in the past before 1000 years for example that someone was doing this, they would stone him to death because it's strange and no one dare to do it (even in your own nation) but it's so ok now for many nations to do it.

Did you get it? No, not yet?

Do you know now why i feel pity for you? <remove idiot icon>

Now, i would like just to remind my brothers and sisters in here by what Allah said in Quran:blah blah blah<snip>

If you think killing a cow for meat can ever be equated to raping a 9 year old girl, then I'm afraid you're dillusional.

 

[TashaN]

If you think killing a cow for meat can ever be equated to raping a 9 year old girl, then I'm afraid you're dillusional.

You went so far ...

Who gave you the right to modify my post when quoting claiming it's mine? :banghead3

Is this what i posted:

Do you know now why i feel pity for you? <remove idiot icon>

Now, i would like just to remind my brothers and sisters in here by what Allah said in Quran:blah blah blah<snip>

This was my original post:

Do you know now why i feel pity for you?

Now, i would like just to remind my brothers and sisters in here by what Allah said in Quran:

And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!" (Quran 25:63)

I'll not address you and i'll not do name calling like what you did when insulted the prophet and Allah verses.

I'll just let Allah deal with you in the hereafter if you were an enemy of Islam but if your first target was to seek for the truth so may Allah show you the truth before you die.

If i feel sorry, it's for your ignorance which i believed you would be able to overcome it but it seems, not.

I doubt even you are an adult with these acts.

Anyway, i shouldn't even waste my time with you but i was just doing it for the sake of Allah only but nothing else.

 

[michel]

I really feel pity for you, your mind didn't move forward yet to discover the world.

I'll give a suloution.

Most of people around the world slay animals such as cows to eat it's meat. (obvious)

Now go for a visit to India and try just try to be shown as you were disrespectful to a cow, they will definitely put you down.

Now think of you tried to slay that cow to eat it, what will happen to you? they may burn you and your family alive for doing so. They praise animals and espcially the cow.

We all know that killing is somthing discusting but why we still killing those animals to eat it's meat? It has a soul, feelings and it's their right to exist in this life just like us.

It's the different in cultures and values toward issues.

You can eat meat, no? what about beef burger?

You will be called a monster in india (hindu areas) if you did so but you will be surprised if they did so and you are doing now the same as the indian who condemn eating this meat of the cow when you say that marriage at that time was bad because they marry small girls bla bla.

Read the history and learn how the people were living at that time and how nations were under various situations and circumstances like wars, diseases and their basic human values.

For instance, for me, i prefer to be killed 100 times (if i have this number of souls ) instead of committitng adultry. Yes i know, you will be like because some people, sex in thier life illegally outside the marriage relationship whether before marriage (and believe me, during marriage too) is so OK just like eating and drinking in their day life. Nevertheless, if they heard in the past before 1000 years for example that someone was doing this, they would stone him to death because it's strange and no one dare to do it (even in your own nation) but it's so ok now for many nations to do it.

Did you get it? No, not yet?

Do you know now why i feel pity for you?

Now, i would like just to remind my brothers and sisters in here by what Allah said in Quran:

And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!" (Quran 25:63)

The Truth,

Actually, you do make some valid points in your post. Cultural differences are the result of many problems. The one you gave as an example (Eating Cows in India) is a good example.

However, I think your last sentence seems to indicate that many Muslims are not behaving as they ought to;

And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!"

I did not notice much saying "Peace!", when the Muslims replied to the Ignorant who published defamatory cartoons of the prophet Muhhamad.................(Double standards?)

 

[thinker_of_elves]

You went so far ...

Who gave you the right to modify my post when quoting claiming it's mine?

Because as I have said before. Why do you quote verses to me from a book which I believe to be the ramblings of a mad man.
You arguie in riddles. You will not accept 'The truth' You only see what is written in that book, no matter what your eyes tell you otherwise. I don't actually want to upset you, but you see, to me, what you regard as holy, I regard as a badly written mess. That's my opinion. Like it or lump it.

 

[thinker_of_elves]

I'll just let Allah deal with you in the hereafter

Come and get me Mr Allah ...Knockout

 

[TashaN]

The Truth,

Actually, you do make some valid points in your post. Cultural differences are the result of many problems. The one you gave as an example (Eating Cows in India) is a good example.

Thanks ...

However, I think your last sentence seems to indicate that many Muslims are not behaving as they ought to;

I did not notice much saying "Peace!", when the Muslims replied to the Ignorant who published defamatory cartoons of the prophet Muhhamad.................(Double standards?)

Dear Michel, I guess we discussed about the cartoon issues many times in many threads and that thing was totally different.

When INDIVIDUALS do it, so it's not the same as when the government allow such a thing in respectful and offecial newspaper.

Actually, it's so complicated issue which includes many veiws and assumptions which we already talked about (as you know) whether in the islamic forum or the other forums during that event. I hope you will pass by and check those relevant threads.

 

[michel]

Thanks ...

However, I think your last sentence seems to indicate that many Muslims are not behaving as they ought to;




Dear Michel, I guess we discussed about the cartoon issues many times in many threads and that thing was totally different.

When INDIVIDUALS do it, so it's not the same as when the government allow such a thing in respectful and offecial newspaper.

Actually, it's so complicated issue which includes many veiws and assumptions which we already talked about (as you know) whether in the islamic forum or the other forums during that event. I hope you will pass by and check those relevant threads.

A newspaper publisher is an individual (in our society) - and is usually not answerable to the Government. Many Government mistakes are picked up by journalists, and are publicised. You need only look at the British and American press to see that.

 

[TashaN]

A newspaper publisher is an individual (in our society) - and is usually not answerable to the Government. Many Government mistakes are picked up by journalists, and are publicised. You need only look at the British and American press to see that.

Michel, you answered it yourself. Most of Muslims don't know that the newspaper may work against the government will and vice versa because in their countires the newspaper can't work against the government as it's the case in America and Britain for instance.

The problem is that most of Muslims think of the west as one block, one mind and one conspiracy against Muslims and the western countries mistakenly think the same as well of Muslims around the world.

We just need to understand each other and to resepct each other's values to not fall in such struggle again or a similar one in the future.

I have my own beliefs and values and you have yours.

One more thing, when the muslims embassadors in Denmark tried to talk to the prime minister to stop the violent before it's start so he never met them then he denied after that their visit to his place.

I attended a lecture in my university by the danish counselor in syrian embassy and he was telling us how the prime minister called him at that time asking for his advise when the muslims embassadors wanted to meet him (whether to meet them or not) and the danish counselor advised him to meet them (because he knows how muslims feel about this sensitive issue) but he didn't (the prime minister) which made the embassadors think that the prime minister is not even interested to discuss about the issue even though those embassadors were fully aware that the islamic public will not take it easy which the prime minister failed to realize until it was too late to do so.

I hope this gave you some thoughts to underdstand the issue.

 

[Nehustan]

I can judge what I want to. It's a free country (probably because it's not yet been taken over by any oppressive religion)

People change societys by realisation of what is going on is wrong. Slavery was rightfully banned. As was paedophilia. Just because they had no clue of that word, doesn't mean they weren't doing it. Their women were second class citizens, and in most muslim countries still are today.

Now I don't agree that Muhammad was a peadophile, BUT conisdering that in the days before Muhammad young girls were buried alive as their father's desired sons, I think having sex post menstruation doesn't seem so bad.

As to women in Islam being 2nd class citizens, there is definately grounds for saying they do not have the same rights as men in some instances. For example in the legal environment it requires two female witnesses to every male. Also when it comes to inheritance the rules are also different. Never the less I have a little challenge for you....see if you can find an earlier codified legal document recording women's rights to any degree other than the Quran. Happy hunting.

 

[YmirGF]

Thanks for you kindess, and kind words....thats fine with me, as long as you are trying to judge him, many don't want to judge, just pass statments and run away.

I assure you, I would not stoop to that... well, not too often, at least. Sometimes however, I cannot resist the odd barb, aimed at topics I have no real interest in.

Yes, I understand that, But i was talking about any other good car, seeing that many other people have problem with this example.

Perhaps it is time to drive that car onto the parking lot of rejected analogies. It isn't a very good one and it is already running out of gas.

hmm...everyone has the right to stick to his/her beliefs, keep in mind that I am not here to let down anyone's belief, but only to tell people that Islam is not the way it is displayed in the media.

That is actually not completely true. By showing the rightness of Islam, you are demonstrating the wrongness of other forms of thought. Perhaps I am being silly, but lets be realistic, at least. I fully understand that Islam is not how SOME media pieces show Islam to be. In all fairness, the media is not as horrid as many Muslim maintain. As you have suggested to others to PROVE IT... perhaps you can offer some REAL proof about that which you speak. If you are able to demonstrate who and what is being biased then I will sit up and listen. The media, in general, does have a tendency to sensationalize things, but Islam is not the lone target.

I suspect the real answer is that Islam and Muslims have done an exceedingly poor job of marketing themselves. The blame for our views of Islam rests squarly on their shoulders, not the media. Again, let's be realistic. For example, the President of Iran is hardly doing Islam any great favors. He merely confirms the deep seated suspicions of non-believers. Plain and simple. The fact that Islam is growing by leaps and bounds every day also does not impress me. It just serves to underscore the immortal words of P.T. Barnum.

I didn't mean that you are having double standards, but many people practice that specialy when it comes to Islam. I was just trying to stop it before it comes.

Tsk, tsk. Assumption, my good fellow... :tsk:

I am sorry to say, but the website you gave me is one of the great works of the media where they try to maline Islam. Don't take me wrong, I don't wanna get into that discussion right now.

Idle drivel and uninformed opinion. Start a new thread and offer proof. Is that an example of "comment and run"? I highly suspect you cannot, in fact, prove it. Therefore your comment is meaningless, and simply your opinion. I am sure many of the fine Muslims posting vigorously on Islam.com would disagree. I suppose you would have me believe that none of their impassioned posts are real and are simply ingenious fabrications.

---------------(snip)------------------

... I understand that you don't believe in the Quran, I would have loved to touch that part before coming to this one, but now if we have started lets go on...

---------------(snip)------------------

Well, you know... it is within your capacity to direct this conversation however you wish. OK, let's leave God alone for a bit. Looking at the Islamic version of god puzzled me for quite awhile. It is in many ways correct. There are however fundamental flaws in that view. That however, IS MY OPINION. I clearly recognize, I could be wrong. I have simply not seen any compelling evidence to the contrary. But again, let's leave that for now.

You are correct. I do not support the idea that the Noble Qur'an OR The Holy Bible as being the literal "word of God". I am NOT saying that they are not inspired by such. That should be self evident. We will leave the Bible out of this, for now, as it has its own unique problems.

It is a common fallicy that the Qur'an has never been altered. I will agree to an extent, however it was standardized by Uthman ibn Affan. Uthman had any variants destroyed. Do you deny this? It is my understanding, that the Uthman version of the Qur'an, is the one that has not been significantly altered since. Do you deny this?

I agree with you he was intelligent, but the intelligence of Quran is far more superior than the intelligence of a mere human being.

Again, that is your opinion. It is not necessarily a fact. Neither does 1.3 billion people parrotting the claim, make it a fact. It can ONLY be a strongly held opinion, and one, that I do not choose to share. It is MY OPINION, that the Qur'an (and the Holy Bible) are NOT the word of God. Do you deny that it is your OPINION, that the Qur'an is the Word of Allah. Please, do not substitute the OPINION of others, if you insist it is NOT your OPINION.

There is a wide gulf between FACT and OPINION. Fact can be substantiated beyond a shadow of doubt. Opinion, by nature, remain in the realm of "best guess scenarios". Do you deny that?

Yes, I find it quite common among people who don't want to submit to God, that they find the idea of Hell the worst one. - (snip) - I think it is much inteligent to take the warning if even one doesn't believe in the Quran or Muhammed, because it is better to be on the safe side, rather than finding the warning true.

Try not to choke, too hard, m'kay. I swear, and may I be struck down instantly if I am uttering a lie, that I have NEVER had so much as a parking ticket. I have NEVER had a speeding ticket. I have NEVER had any ticket whatsoever. I was arrested once, but was simply in the wrong place, at the wrong time. I was cleared within two hours and released. I was never placed in a holding cell and have no criminal record.

You are welcome to point out, that one day I will have to pay the piper. All I can say, is I hope he makes change... although I would most likely give him a tip for the joy of such a wonderful life he had given me.

Someone asked me... ...tell them about hell and heaven, but which one will you believe in, if you have to, the scriptures with condratictions (human hands at work), or the scripture which is 100% pure from contractions and human changes.

I do admire your dedication to your opinion. We have to take your word, or the word of others, that what you are saying is true. Can you possibly deny that this is simply your opinion, and leave it at that. I would GREATLY respect you if you simply admitted that it was in fact simply your (and others) OPINION. Having you insist that it is the 100% bona fide truth, does not make it so. To go back to the OP of this entire long winded thread... IT IS YOUR PERCEPTION that it is true. That is not the same thing as it BEING TRUE. Do you understand that difference?

I am pleased to know that, but I disagree with you, many websites talk about Muhammed, but niether have they (their authors) have met Muhammed, nor me and you, Right? So according to me we must ask the peolpe who lived with Him, no one knows him better than the ones who lived with him next door, spend 40 years with him before revelation, the statments of the worst enemies of Islam, you must be knowing the famous ABU JAHEL, if you have read Muhammed's Biography you must be. On the battle field of Badr, before the battle, he said to one of his friends " By God! I know that if all this is from Muhammed he is not lying" but still he was the worst of his enemies, Why? because he didn't want to lose his position, how can he surrender 360 gods for ONE God, no way, how can he embrass the slave, love the poor, give women their rights 'we sell and purchase them in the market like sheeps, what the hell are you talking about', ......

*sigh* Why should I trust the words of a veritable barbarian who see's his death at hand? I do agree however, one must look to Muhammed's contemporaries to get a good understanding of what he was like. Just where, pray tell, do you think I got my ideas from? McDonald's?

If a person claims so, you cannot call him insane,

You are putting me on, right? You must be joking.

neither can you call him sane

Certainly, no argument there.

we believe in such miracles from the Prophet, but we don't boast on them, because all this has no scientific explaination,

Actually, my esteemed fellow, there is a good scientific explanation... you just do not wish to entertain the ramifications. Do you deny this? Sometimes that glowing, brilliant light at the end of a long tunnel really is an oncoming freight train.

his ultimate Miracle is the Quran, the miracle of miracles.

A rather bold claim for something there is no supporting tangible evidence. Lots of folks will glady kill to make this point, without thinking to give any kind of evidence. The simplest evidence would be by living as examples to us all. Those examples would fill our hearts and minds with wonder. Sadly, Islam does not kindle this in the heart of unbelievers, so it has failed to get its message across.

The true Word OF God should kindle the hearts of the most woe-begotten infidel. It's shining message should beckon to the minds of those who do not believe, in such a way as to dispel their doubts. Lastly, the true word of god, should translate EASILY into any language of man without loosing its meaning. I would expect nothing less from a god worthy of being called a god. But... that, my good fellow, is my opinion.

I don't have knowledge about this, and that's why I left this question of yours at first. I will see what can I find in this regard, it is never too late to learn.

Take yer time, I am genuinely interested.

Let's try to make future posts considerably shorter... Agreed?

 

[mehrosh]

That is actually not completely true. By showing the rightness of Islam, you are demonstrating the wrongness of other forms of thought. Perhaps I am being silly, but lets be realistic, at least.

Nope Sir, you just put my words into a different sentence, the Rightness of Islam is different from all other fake beliefs (yes don't remind me, this is my opinion)

I fully understand that Islam is not how SOME media pieces show Islam to be. In all fairness, the media is not as horrid as many Muslim maintain. As you have suggested to others to PROVE IT... perhaps you can offer some REAL proof about that which you speak.

You know what, you are quite right, I am begging people to give me something to prove and when they don't have anything, they just pass baseless statments and don't even want to prove it. 2+2=5, I cannot accept this without proof, and if you want me to prove something, you need to name it. Straighten your question.

I suspect the real answer is that Islam and Muslims have done an exceedingly poor job of marketing themselves. The blame for our views of Islam rests squarly on their shoulders, not the media. Again, let's be realistic. For example, the President of Iran is hardly doing Islam any great favors. He merely confirms the deep seated suspicions of non-believers. Plain and simple. The fact that Islam is growing by leaps and bounds every day also does not impress me. It just serves to underscore the immortal words of P.T. Barnum.

Dear, It is for a human to err....but when you look at the media, you find that only MUSLIMS ARE HUMANS, REST ARE ANGELS. You know what IRANIAN President is doing, what is MR. BUSH doing, killing thousands of Innocent women and children, just to grab a handful of TERRORISTS, if you want to discuss this, there is a politics section.

Idle drivel and uninformed opinion. Start a new thread and offer proof. Is that an example of "comment and run"? I highly suspect you cannot, in fact, prove it. Therefore your comment is meaningless, and simply your opinion. I am sure many of the fine Muslims posting vigorously on Islam.com would disagree. I suppose you would have me believe that none of their impassioned posts are real and are simply ingenious fabrications.

I am sorry, I think I have hurt your feelings with this, I didn't mean it, you challenge me to prove my comment, but then we will be running far away from the topic.

You are correct. I do not support the idea that the Noble Qur'an OR The Holy Bible as being the literal "word of God".

And that is your opinion, the Quran challenges it's reading to put it to test, and tells you, that if it was from any other source than God, there would have been contradictions in it. The Qur’an says that this book, this book the Qur’an it is a revelation from God Almighty. If it is not, then what is it? You give the other alternative. (again please straighten your question, I want questions rather than replies or idea, because then or debate will be flying here and there)

It is a common fallicy that the Qur'an has never been altered. I will agree to an extent, however it was standardized by Uthman ibn Affan. Uthman had any variants destroyed. Do you deny this? It is my understanding, that the Uthman version of the Qur'an, is the one that has not been significantly altered since. Do you deny this?

At, last you have a QUESTION for me, that is what I was looking for, no one has to offer questions here, they just think they are too smart to listen. I request you once agian to put up questions rather than assumptions without proofs. Sometimes we hear questions that are twisted in such a way as to give a wrong meaning and we must set them straight before trying to give an answer. Right?

Before answering let me thankyou for asking about my religion and make it very clear, that I will not lie about anything, because a muslim never lies.

Secondly While you are listening to the answers to your questions, if you discover that you like what you are hearing and you think that it is something good, are you then prepared to consider worshipping your Lord, Alone without any partners?"

If you agree with me, I will proceed and provide the answers to all your questions Inshallah. Required they are straight questions.

There is a wide gulf between FACT and OPINION. Fact can be substantiated beyond a shadow of doubt. Opinion, by nature, remain in the realm of "best guess scenarios". Do you deny that?

No, I don't deny that, but I had put up a fact, shessh wait, I had put up this fact to prove it, not just to blabble. again put up your straight question.

Try not to choke, too hard, m'kay. I swear, and may I be struck down instantly if I am uttering a lie, that I have NEVER had so much as a parking ticket. I have NEVER had a speeding ticket. I have NEVER had any ticket whatsoever. I was arrested once, but was simply in the wrong place, at the wrong time. I was cleared within two hours and released. I was never placed in a holding cell and have no criminal record.

Thats good, well you have a good police record.

I do admire your dedication to your opinion. We have to take your word, or the word of others, that what you are saying is true. Can you possibly deny that this is simply your opinion, and leave it at that. I would GREATLY respect you if you simply admitted that it was in fact simply your (and others) OPINION. Having you insist that it is the 100% bona fide truth, does not make it so. To go back to the OP of this entire long winded thread... IT IS YOUR PERCEPTION that it is true. That is not the same thing as it BEING TRUE. Do you understand that difference?

Yes, dear I do, but thats what you didn't understand at first, I said the Quran is 100% pure word of God to prove it, just not say and run away. Got it?

 

[mehrosh]

*sigh* Why should I trust the words of a veritable barbarian who see's his death at hand?

Sorry, but go back and read my post again, I had typed, the Abu Jahel said this before Badr, not during it, before the Battle he knew he is the winner, and will leave with victory and end of Islam, why wouldn't he think that why, he was equipped with 1000 soldiers and far more camels and horses compared to the muslim army, and Muhammed with only 300 of the soldier and handful of horses and camels.

History tells us that never has the prophet been ever reported of telling a lie till the prophethood that is till the age of 40. And all the people acclaimed him as a person who was honest, who was noble, who was chaste. No wonder they gave him the title Al-Ameen - the trustworthy. Friends and foes alike. Even those people who said that he was a liar, God forbid, after he claimed prophethood, even then, they kept their valuables with him for safe keeping. Then why should an honest person lie and say that the Qur&#8217;an is a word of God and that he was a prophet.

Actually, my esteemed fellow, there is a good scientific explanation... you just do not wish to entertain the ramifications. Do you deny this? Sometimes that glowing, brilliant light at the end of a long tunnel really is an oncoming freight train.

Yes, SOMETIMES, not always.

A rather bold claim for something there is no supporting tangible evidence. Lots of folks will glady kill to make this point, without thinking to give any kind of evidence.

It is actually the other way round, there is no (leave tangible) there is certainly no evidence that Quran is not from God. For the discussion again, I would like you to put up a straightened clear question.

The simplest evidence would be by living as examples to us all. Those examples would fill our hearts and minds with wonder. Sadly, Islam does not kindle this in the heart of unbelievers, so it has failed to get its message across.The true Word OF God should kindle the hearts of the most woe-begotten infidel. It's shining message should beckon to the minds of those who do not believe, in such a way as to dispel their doubts.

Sorry, I disagree with you, what you are saying is your opinion, the fact is the opposite, Islam does goes deep into the heart of the unbeliever also, provided he is looking for the truth. You will ask me, for the evidence and my evidence is that, even when there are only a handful of Islamic organizations around, we have a very few Dayis (people who call to Islam) around, still it is the fasted spreading religion.

CNN reported on June 24 that after 9/11 '34,000 people entered into Islam in 9 months'. When allegations against Islam was on its peak,

How is this possible to have happened, when there were was a loud cry of Islam being a ruthless religion, magazines doing business by publishing lot of interesting things about Islam, Politicians made their careers just by talking about Islam then, I ask you, who forced these people by placing swords on their necks. The answer is no one, they studied Islam as the result of the allegations and it pierced their hearts. They found the truth, the diamond out of the coal mine, and accepted it. They say its a LANDMARK IN HISTORY, we also say, it is the LANDMARK IN THE HISTORY OF ISLAM.

Lastly, the true word of god, should translate EASILY into any language of man without loosing its meaning. I would expect nothing less from a god worthy of being called a god. But... that, my good fellow, is my opinion.

The Translation of the Quran is available in almost all the major languages of the world. Quran never lost it's meaning when being translaed, but it is for a human to err....... human beings can make mistakes in translating it and you cannot put a blame on God, what you can do is discuss it with an expert. If you have a medical problem, you will go to an expert doctor, Right? So, God has given us the book, its on our part to read and ponder over it. You don't want to take that little trouble to search for the truth, but you can drive down town to a doctor when you are not well. Many non-muslims study arabic just to know the Quran better, not able to understand the language, is not a good excuse to escape the truth. But no one is telling you to learn arabic, pick up the translation and read it, if you find something wrong with it, you can ask me, and if I don't have an answer, we can refer to an Arabic language expert.

Let's try to make future posts considerably shorter... Agreed?

Yes, agreed, infact we have to, because such posts don't make sense, there are many fountains in this garden, you ask me to prove this and that, facts and opinions, but you don't provide me the chance to do so, everytime we come to something, it is put into another direction.

 

[mehrosh]

I did not notice much saying "Peace!", when the Muslims replied to the Ignorant who published defamatory cartoons of the prophet Muhhamad.................(Double standards?)

Maybe you didn't hear the Islamic scholars telling people to calm down and stay in the limits of Islam. People who practiced voilence, where not supporting the Prophet, rather going against his teaching. When Prophet Muhammed went to Taif, to convey the message of God to their people, the people stonned him and he ran, he ran until his feet started to bleed. But still he prayed to God to guide them, this was Muhammed, Muslims who promote voilence in the name of religion are not the followers of Muhammed. "God likes not those who spread mischief on the land"

 

[mehrosh]

Anyway, i shouldn't even waste my time with you but i was just doing it for the sake of Allah only but nothing else.

Brother when people pass statments without knowing what they are saying, it is better to leave them on their own. You must have heard about Mythomania. Well, atleast I am satisfied, there is atleast someone who is proving my signature right. Someone who doesn't know the meaning of pedophile.

 

[mehrosh]

A newspaper publisher is an individual (in our society) - and is usually not answerable to the Government. Many Government mistakes are picked up by journalists, and are publicised. You need only look at the British and American press to see that.

You are right Michel, I agree with you, knowing the fact that there are many websites on the net, they just work to abuse others faith and beliefs, writing and publishing baseless stuff about Jesus, Muhammed May peace be upon them. We have to swallow such things, but why these cartoons spread like fire was because, the first time they were published in september 2005, no one took notice, once again they published them in early 2006 (if I am not wrong). On this the Islamic Organization there contacted the Government of Denmark, but they supported the newspaper, you can refer to the reports of CNN on this subject, you must also have come across the statment of their Queen recently.

Now the problem is not that this newspaper pulished the cartoons, anyone anywhere can draw or write anything about anyone he likes, who cares. But the Government shouldn't have supported such an act, which can hurt the feelings of anyone infact the feelings of millions of people across the world, it doesn't suit the Government of such a respectful State. It is not that we don't support freedom, Freedom should be used to promote truth fearlessly, rather than promoting lies.

Thanks for enquiring about Islam
Regards,
Mehrosh

 

[frg001]

...
Now the problem is not that this newspaper pulished the cartoons, anyone anywhere can draw or write anything about anyone he likes, who cares. But the Government shouldn't have supported such an act, which can hurt the feelings of anyone infact the feelings of millions of people across the world, it doesn't suit the Government of such a respectful State. It is not that we don't support freedom, Freedom should be used to promote truth fearlessly, rather than promoting lies.

Thanks for enquiring about Islam
Regards,
Mehrosh

I must admit, Mr Mehrosh, I disagree with this one. I would agree, that governments should absolutely not take actions that would offend other peoples beliefs out of hand, but I do think they should protect their own citizens rights of freedom of expression. I saw the cartoons, and wasn't particularly impressed, they were poor and very probably meant as bait... and it worked.
Some people then took this to a crazy extreme. Attacking innocent people in embassies, or workers in fast-food outlets, was outragious. I'm sure any right-minded muslim would agree.

But we must protect the right of anyone to air their opinion, even if some groups don't like that opinion.

A rhyme I was taught as a child still resonates with me now...
"Sticks and stones may break my bones. But words will never hurt me"

Oh how I wish people would think like this before overreacting.

 

[mehrosh]

Pleased to have you back,

Well! yes I agree with you to much extent. Muslims went to the extent of breaking, burning, and I have talked about it in my post to Michel, that how much is this against the teachings of Muhammed saas, if they say they love him, they should follow him.

The cartoons were doing no harm to Islam niether the Prophet, it is only that they came on to highlight, but such things keep on happening. The people who drew those cartoon, did no harm to Islam nor to Muhammed, they rather put themselves into trouble, I know they are still under police protection, they fear their lifes.

I understand and agree that the Government shoud protect their citizens right of Freedom of expression. Freedom is a very powerful weapon of expression, it is the right of every human being, but it's misuse displays his morals. Maybe you headline it as freedom of expression, but I will say this is the misuse of Freedom of expression.

We require Peace in todays world, we should try and settle at peace, how many more lifes will we claim to come to Peace? Banging and Punching each other and calling it freedom will do no good.

 

[frg001]

We require Peace in todays world, we should try and settle at peace, how many more lifes will we claim to come to Peace? Banging and Punching each other and calling it freedom will do no good.

Absolutely. And that's where we go too far. That's not freedom. But a picture, or some words is far removed from , as you say banging and punching. In my quest to find the said pictures I found a site that had sprang up entirely just to take it further. I'll not give you the url, as you either already know, or don't want to know it, and it is quite obviously very very offensive. But this only came about because of such reactions. You see the damage that some (misguided yes) followers of Islam, do?

 

[mehrosh]

Absolutely. And that's where we go too far. That's not freedom. But a picture, or some words is far removed from , as you say banging and punching. In my quest to find the said pictures I found a site that had sprang up entirely just to take it further. I'll not give you the url, as you either already know, or don't want to know it, and it is quite obviously very very offensive. But this only came about because of such reactions. You see the damage that some (misguided yes) followers of Islam, do?

You don't need to tell me, I have visited many such websites. Even though it saddens me to great extent, I know I can't do anything. After all patience, patience, patience, thats all I can do, I will not claim to love Muhammed unless I don't try my best to follow him, when he passed the streets people would throw rubbish collected in their house through out the day, but he would just pass by enduring it with patience, one day he was passing by the same street, but this time no rubbish was thrown, he went and enquired about those people, one of them was suffering from illness, he visited them with a get well soon slogan. Well, great patience, no I don't say I am a good Muslim, just trying to be one...hope so I become one, one day.

I was trying to figure out the meaning of your signature....???