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Perceptions of Israel Before and After the Start of the War
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
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GoodAttention
Active Member
It’s too early to perceive.
The real test comes when the guns are silent, and will be a test for all humanity, not just for Israelis and Palestinians.
Israel isn’t going anywhere, so Palestine it is your move, so choose wisely.
The real test comes when the guns are silent, and will be a test for all humanity, not just for Israelis and Palestinians.
Israel isn’t going anywhere, so Palestine it is your move, so choose wisely.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
LOL. hot-head? Yes sir, guilty as charged. Irrational, not by a long shot. I edited my post, immediately, btw, because I realized after I read it that the hot-head part was hypocritical. You're right about that.
But @TagliatelliMonster is being irrational. And just like yesterday, when challenged to support their claim, they flipped, and tried to avoid their own burden.
This is rather typical behavior when there is an irrational argument. The individual starts flopping like a fish to avoid admitting to themselves and others who stupid there argument actually is when it is examined. What you and the others perceive as attacks and harassment is a not personal. It's a natural consequence of being shown that their position is utterly stupid. And that makes the individual feel stupid. Naturally. That's not my fault. They shouldn't say stupid stuff in a debate. They shouldn't start threads making stupid assertions like : "I KNOW what Israel is doing". That is a stupid thing to say.
Beyond that. I am a lone warrior taking all of you on at once and winning. Yes, I will be spiking the football and dancing in the end-zone. And you can't stop me from celebrating the victory.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Israel has offered a two state solution multiple times. Real opportunities for Palestinians to self-govern in peace as neighbors. Palestine has always refused. And they are still refusing a two-state solution.
The condition made by Israel to its neighbor is simple: In writing, confirm, categorically: "The State of Israel Exists." They will not do that, because they have no intention of living peacefully side by side as two states. It needs to be in writing because that way it is binding by Islamic law.
GoodAttention
Active Member
At this point we could recognise Abbas as King of Palestine.
Whataboutism to deflect from...
2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank | Save the Children International
2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
That's not too far off. I think it was 1 month ago I considered the war over because the leadership of Hamas ( the ones who are not in exile, probably on a small boat somewhere ) were being absorbed into the PA. Hamas is done. But the PA isn't better. We thought they were. They are not.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's not what-about. It's balance.
2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank | Save the Children International
2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bankwww.savethechildren.net
I asked if you knew who, what, where, when, and why for these deaths. Do you? Do you know any details at all? You are not a fan of the criminal justice system, right? Your natural inclination is anti Law-Enforcement? If so, you cannot be a credible judge of any of this. You don't respect the process for fair judgement. You don't know how to do it, do you?
In order to evaluate the numbers, you need:
Who, What, Where, When, and Why
Do you have any of that? Beyond conjecture? Beyond guessing?
Israel has been called a nazi state often by some here in Brazil since the Hamas attack. It is disgusting.
My compatriates are a sorry lot far as awareness of foreign politics go. But still.
His policies for dealing with Hamas and Gaza, of course. Those are disgusting too.
I have very little sympathy for Hamas and many of its rival militant groups.
But that is simply no excuse for the "missiles first" stance that the current Israeli Prime Minister has been promoting.
It is carnage and ought to be repudiated as such. Not insignificantly, it has also lent Hamas an appearance of legitimacy that it does not deserve.
A common view of whataboutists.
No point discussing something you deflect from.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
What is the fastest most effective manner of rendering a weapons cache inert?
Hamas stashed weapons everywhere. Israel knew with high certainty where they were, prior to Oct. 7th. The Gazans were told to evacuate. Israel knew a little over 20% were rebel fighters doing the work of Hamas. But they were permitted to flee, because the purpose is not to 'butcher'. Without their weapons they are harmless. And they cannot take their weapons with them.
After the resistance fighters leave, Israel sends a team. All they need to do is confirm the intelligence is correct. They don't need to inspect the entire building.
Weapons expected? Weapons found.
Weapons expected? Weapons found.
Weapons expected? Weapons found.
Air strike. Weapons buried under rubble. Move on.
That is the opposite of "missiles first". And it's certainly not butchering.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Not true. I will not deflect from your details.
Do you have any details?
In order to evaluate the numbers, you need:
Who, What, Where, When, and Why
Beyond conjecture? Beyond guessing?
You cannot discuss this.
Please bother someone else.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I can. You don't have facts to discuss. All you have is unjustified blame.
In order to evaluate the numbers, you need:
Who, What, Where, When, and Why
Beyond conjecture? Beyond guessing?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
That's not me, sir. All you need to do is bring details. If you do, and I deflect, avoid, obfuscate, you win, and you're right. But you won't, because you can't.
In order to evaluate the numbers, you need:
Who, What, Where, When, and Why
Beyond conjecture? Beyond guessing?
Look, I have no sympathy for Hamas. I can barely tolerate Fatah. I don't even see the idea of a "Two State Solution" as realistically possible, well meaning as it probably is.
For all that the plight of the Palestinians is grave and very, very real, I can hardly sympathise with what appears to be a continued policy of attempting to salvage their pride by harvesting "martyrs" out of their midst and building cultural values around that.
There is IMO a very urgent, very grave and very difficult matter of political representation for the Palestinians - and from all appearances a much more serious matter of political viability of their community to be faced after that.
Many people here in Brazil have little identification with the Israelis, and quite some Brazilians are of Arab ancestry or at least friendly with some people who are. I probably should not be surprised by how quickly and deeply they are blaming Israel and glossing over the fault from Hamas and other terrorist groups.
But all the same, we are talking about real people trying to build their lives in a very hostile environment. Much of that adversity is IMO self-inflicted and even inherited from their previous generations; it has often been pointed out that current Palestinians are overall very young and that Hamas has been elected, but back in 2006. I don't know about others, but to me that does not indicate a whole lot of legitimacy.
Still, we are talking about a community where people often aren't old enough to have ever voted; where they and their parents may well have lived their whole lives in function of their hopes of eventually destroying Israel and "avenge their martyrs" - and, most tragic of all, with little idea of how to ever be something else.
Edited to add: I want to elaborate a bit here. I don't see Hamas as representative of Palestinians, but I don't know that there is any organized groups that is representative either. That is very bad for the Palestinians and arguably worse still for the Israelis; lacking the means for dealing politically and diplomatically with Gaza and the West Bank, they pretty much have to use force or else simply leave the area.
It takes a rare sort of heroism to deal constructively with such a community as one's own neighbors. Israel has been in a very difficult situation for decades.
But we are still talking about reasons for bloody spectacles. That is no minor thing.
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West just finished a racist regime in Europe in 1945, then created other in 1948 called Israel.
Palestinians had suffered from this monster that come to them since for 75 years.runing from other monster in europe.
I believe Palestinians fighting for all humanity , not just for them selfs.
My perception about Israel no change, but my perception about some members here pro-Israel,which show no humanity sense to innocents killed by IDF.
Palestinians had suffered from this monster that come to them since for 75 years.runing from other monster in europe.
I believe Palestinians fighting for all humanity , not just for them selfs.
My perception about Israel no change, but my perception about some members here pro-Israel,which show no humanity sense to innocents killed by IDF.