Poll: Religious garb or religious garbage?

[muhammad_isa]

But your harm is not public. It is your harm.

That depends.
If a group of people is intent on political activism which offends the majority, particularly if it is against accepted Divine decree, it risks undermining the whole society.

 

[Valjean]

I think you're exaggerating here.
I doubt very much whether Iranian morality police are going around "murdering women".. that's not to say that I agree with or support Iran.

At least 9 killed in Iran as protests over woman's killing by morality police spread And this doesn't include the beatings, whipping, tear gas or detention centers.

The trouble I see with the world today is that people are divided into right-wing / left wing extremes.

And why is that? Are both sides extreme? Was there a time when this was not the case? What changed?

We are being herded into this side or that, by quite frankly, people with little education.

By disorganized idealists with poor communication skills on one side, and by wealthy, highly organized, special interests applying advanced propaganda methods on the other.
One side has facts and history on its side, the other: money, media control and advanced propaganda techniques.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That depends.
If a group of people is intent on political activism which offends the majority, particularly if it is against accepted Divine decree, it risks undermining the whole society.

Yeah, I have a different faith and I am glad that you are not in charge. And I know it harms you that you are not in charge. I do get that.

 

[Valjean]

If our society wasn't so hung up about the human body, people wouldn't try to shock or push the envelope. The puritan ethic empowers men to act out to keep women in line. We have such a narrow view of sexuality and the body and it's pretty damaging.

Young people are less invested in the status quo and fearful of change than older people comfortably ensconced in the socio-economic order. They push the envelope. They question. They try new things. They scare the s**t out of the establishment, who fear rocking the boat.

Tradition, religion and propriety are powerful motivators. Established and insecure people fear change.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yeah, I have a different faith and I am glad that you are not in charge..

..but we don't know what your "faith" actually is .. all you keep saying is that it is different. Quite meaningless really.

And I know it harms you that you are not in charge..

You must be joking .. it's the last thing I want.
Almighty God is sufficient for me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Young people are less invested in the status quo and fearful of change than older people comfortably ensconced in the socio-economic order. They push the envelope. They question. They try new things. They scare the s**t out of the establishment, who fear rocking the boat.

Tradition, religion and propriety are powerful motivators. Established and insecure people fear change.

I am forced to be young, because I am neurodiverse. So even as old, it isn't over for me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

..but we don't know what your "faith" actually is .. all you keep saying is that it is different. Quite meaningless really.


You must be joking .. it's the last thing I want.
Almighty God is sufficient for me.

Yeah, I do meaningless different than you because I am in part an absurdist and irrationalist. That is a part of my religion since I am a strong skeptic.

 

[Valjean]

You're not away that there is strong evidence that the "morality police" took a young woman into custody for the manner in which she chose to dress, and beat her to death, and lied about how she died?

And that this has led to rioting against the morality police all over Iran?

And that there is evidence that other young women ─ and citizens as well ─ have been murdered in similar ways?

When if there were any trace of real morality in their present government, women would be be given full equality before the law and religion would be one of the options a free citizen was entitled to make?

Theirs is a Divine Command, deontological morality. Morality is doing what's pleasing to God, not what's practical or conducive to human happiness, prosperity or security.
What's pleasing to God is dictated by the predominant religious narrative favored by the powers-that-be.
The predominant interest of the powers-that-be is maintaining the system through which they gained and hold their power.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That sounds rather personal..
I thought we were discussing about whether govts. should be able to make laws regards "dress-code" ..

I say they should, because it is the business of govt. to protect its people from harm, and listen to what the majority want.
In the case of a majority Muslim country, it is not the business of the west to dictate and interfere in this regard, imo.

Well, perhaps we have different opinions as to freedom, rights, and responsibilities - given that many seem to insist - our way is the right way - Islam, for example.

Did any hold a referendum as to such - rather than this being imposed upon them?

And, given the numbers (in Iran), why would any (that are honest) truly believe the results (look at them):

Referendums in Iran - Wikipedia

According to the referendum act of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran (1989), referendum will be held with the proposal of the president or 100 members of the Islamic Consultative Assembly and enactment of at least two-thirds of the total number of Members of them. The Ministry of Interior is responsible for holding referendum and Guardian Council for monitoring and confirmation it.

 

[ChristineM]

Oh, I can control myself.
I have no interest whatsoever in dirty women.

Nothing dirty about the human body, so it must be in your mind.

 

[Valjean]

That depends.
If a group of people is intent on political activism which offends the majority, particularly if it is against accepted Divine decree, it risks undermining the whole society.

It risks disrupting the system that maintains the wealth, power and social status of the rich and powerful.

 

[Valjean]

Yeah, I do meaningless different than you because I am in part an absurdist and irrationalist. That is a part of my religion since I am a strong skeptic.

An orthodox Dadaist?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

An orthodox Dadaist?

I am even worse. I am so postmodern and woke and all the rest for some cases, that to some people I should properly be removed from normal life in some sense. But I am lucky that I live in Denmark.

 

[muhammad_isa]

And, given the numbers (in Iran), why would any (that are honest) truly believe the results (look at them):

Referendums in Iran - Wikipedia

According to the referendum act of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran (1989), referendum will be held with the proposal of the president or 100 members of the Islamic Consultative Assembly and enactment of at least two-thirds of the total number of Members of them. The Ministry of Interior is responsible for holding referendum and Guardian Council for monitoring and confirmation it.

Now, you are becoming political.
My statement was not political, but a general principle of belief in a fair democracy, and in support of "dress-codes".

I have already said that I don't support Iran.
I have little knowledge of Iran, apart from what I see in the media.
Never been there, myself.

Incidentally, I am not against the banning of the burqa [or face-coverings], but strongly against banning hijab in Europe.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...
Incidentally, I am not against the banning of the burqa [or face-coverings], but strongly against banning hijab in Europe.

We don't even agree on that. but you should see some of the Danish Muslim variations of the Hijab. That is a really creative variation of lust and modesty rolled into one.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Now, you are becoming political.
My statement was not political, but a general principle of belief in a fair democracy, and in support of "dress-codes".

I have already said that I don't support Iran.
I have little knowledge of Iran, apart from what I see in the media.
Never been there, myself.

Incidentally, I am not against the banning of the burqa [or face-coverings], but strongly against banning hijab in Europe.

Well, it might have been obvious as to my OP, that it was more about the situation in Iran (and Afghanistan) as to males' beliefs (silly old patriarchy) being imposed upon females, even if such is dressed up as religious beliefs.

 

[Valjean]

I am even worse. I am so postmodern and woke and all the rest for some cases, that to some people I should properly be removed from normal life in some sense. But I am lucky that I live in Denmark.

In Christiania?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In Christiania?

No. But that is not the only way to be outside the norms.

 

[firedragon]

Try Iran or Afghanistan - unless your telescope can't see that far.

Ah. See, because you don't even have a telescope but only your eyes placed in your lifes purpose of spreading hatred towards muslims, you insist upon others to look at muslims only. I understand the hypocrisy. I suggest turn your eyes towards your own bigotry and hypocrisy.

But yes. Iran and Afghanistan are tyrannical and they oppress some women who are a bit different, just like france and switzerland.

 

[firedragon]

If you accept human interaction is better we can use non-verbal communication and verbal.
If you accept that we should avoid not just yelling fire in a crowded theater, but also similar cases.
If you accept the need for limited freedom when dealing with the enforcement of common safety.

That is it for the basic observations and assessments. And you can still claim it differently.

This is irrelevant. That's because there was no research done for your claims you made earlier so you don't have a choice but to make some random sentence to make a new conversation. Irrelevant.