Prayers for Israel

[Revoltingest]

I can equally condemn the terrorist acts of Hamas and the war crimes of Israel. My heart goes out to the innocents who are going to bear the majority of the loss.

I'll add (because it's a useful view) the war
crimes of Hamas, & the terrorist acts of Israel.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I don't think people on the left disagree with standing up against evil.



But yes. I think there is always room for an attempt at diplomacy.

Which is it? How can the Jews use diplomacy with an organization that wants Jews dead?

 

[Quetzal]

Which is it? How can the Jews use diplomacy with an organization that wants Jews dead?

Correctly answering that question will get you the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

[Soandso]

Granted,as an addendum and clarification, I don't think all wars are bad, it is necessary to defend oneself. But it doesn't make either side free from its affects, effects and ills.

The term "necessary evil" comes to mind in those situations. War is a sorrowful aspect of human nature, but it is still very much an aspect of human nature none the less, seems to me

 

[Revoltingest]

Correctly answering that question will get you the Nobel Peace Prize.

The Nobel Prize would require not only
answering it, but convincing the parties
to cooperate.

But he gets the question wrong.
Negotiating with Hamas is pointless.
Hamas only exists because of Israel's
oppression of Palestinians. And they're
currently ramping that up, killing more
Palestinians than usual. It'll get worse
as they continue bombing Gaza without
allowing people to flee.
Until Palestinians are treated justly, the
violence will endure.

 

[Heyo]

What is your prediction for the Israel/Palestinian end game? I’m talking long-term and lasting, not regarding this current conflict.

Given the record of the last 75 years the conflict will be solved by the utter destruction of one side or the heat death of the universe, whichever comes first.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What is your prediction for the Israel/Palestinian end game? I’m talking long-term and lasting, not regarding this current conflict.

A Palestinian sovereign state.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Some wars are just. What some on the left don’t understand is you have to stand up to evil, letting evil flourish is immoral. Should Israel have instead tried to appeased Hamas?

The war tactics of Hamas are immoral for sure.
Israel however, isn't much better - if at all.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The war tactics of Hamas are immoral for sure.
Israel however, isn't much better - if at all.

I see a difference. Israel is not targeting civilians, putting military targets within civilian areas, raping women, kidnapping people or calling for a worldwide day of rage to instigate violence in other areas of the world. The tactics are different. I am not saying Israel has not done anything wrong but their tactics have not been as immoral as Hamas. Hamas needs to be destroyed, they are not fighting for the Palestinian cause, they are terrorists using the Palestinian cause as a cover. Israelis are not terrorists.

 

[Heyo]

I see a difference. Israel is not targeting civilians, putting military targets within civilian areas, raping women, kidnapping people or calling for a worldwide day of rage to instigate violence in other areas of the world. The tactics are different.

It's called "asymmetric warfare". As a military inferior force you have to resort to very clever or very ruthless tactics to have any chance to annoy your enemy. Israel has the resources to fight "by the rules" - though they choose to not do so.

I am not saying Israel has not done anything wrong but their tactics have not been as immoral as Hamas. Hamas needs to be destroyed, they are not fighting for the Palestinian cause, they are terrorists using the Palestinian cause as a cover. Israelis are not terrorists.

You should ask the Palestinians. They elected Hamas as their government. If the Palestinians wouldn't want the terror, they'd not support Hamas.

 

[Jimmy]

For the sake of argument let’s say all the Jewish people moved out of Israel. I still think Hamas would look for another group of people to terrorize. They don’t have an end goal. Their goal is to terrorize human beings imo.

 

[Drunk_Uncle_Bob]

I see a difference. Israel is not targeting civilians, putting military targets within civilian areas, raping women, kidnapping people or calling for a worldwide day of rage to instigate violence in other areas of the world. The tactics are different. I am not saying Israel has not done anything wrong but their tactics have not been as immoral as Hamas. Hamas needs to be destroyed, they are not fighting for the Palestinian cause, they are terrorists using the Palestinian cause as a cover. Israelis are not terrorists.

With full knowledge hopefully on both sides that I am not in any way endorsing terrorists I will say this. The amount of harm done to Palestine by Israel is leagues worse than anything Israel has suffered at the hands of Palestine. This doesn't justify terrorism but at the very very least people don't get to prop Israel up as some beacon of morality on the subject.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It's called "asymmetric warfare". As a military inferior force you have to resort to very clever or very ruthless tactics to have any chance to annoy your enemy. Israel has the resources to fight "by the rules" - though they choose to not do so.

What rules are there in war? I think there are moral and immoral acts in war but no rules. Hamas uses immoral tactics.

You should ask the Palestinians. They elected Hamas as their government. If the Palestinians wouldn't want the terror, they'd not support Hamas.

I am sure not all Palestinians want Hamas there. But I am sure some want the terrorism.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

With full knowledge hopefully on both sides that I am not in any way endorsing terrorists I will say this. The amount of harm done to Palestine by Israel is leagues worse than anything Israel has suffered at the hands of Palestine. This doesn't justify terrorism but at the very very least people don't get to prop Israel up as some beacon of morality on the subject.

I am not saying Israel is a beacon of morality. But they are not terrorists. What has Israel done that is immoral?

 

[Drunk_Uncle_Bob]

I am not saying Israel is a beacon of morality. But they are not terrorists. What has Israel done that is immoral?

I mean....the whole Palestine situation from top to bottom. They have already killed more civilians in response to the attack than died in the initial attack. Over the last 15 years 380 Israeli's have died but over 6k Palestinian civilians have died. They turned off water and power to millions of people (colloquially known as a war crime) who exist in an open air prison camp controlled entirely by Israel. Used white phosphorous (another war crime) as confirmed by Human Rights Watch. Just today they have demanded an evacuation of over a million people within a 24 hour window. Something both Human Rights groups and Israel themselves have stated is impossible.
And this is just from the last week. IF we want to talk about Israel's track record on Palestine prior to this event it gets much worse. Especially since the west bank, which is peaceful and not ruled by Hamas, still gets shafted by Israel.

The one Palestinian diplomat in the UK that did all of those interviews over the course of like 2 days personally had family members killed by Israel from an indiscriminate bombing. And yet time and time again the only question asked is "do you condemn Hamas" as if he isn't representing the ONLY Palestinian political group opposing Hamas.

 

[Heyo]

What rules are there in war? I think there are moral and immoral acts in war but no rules. Hamas uses immoral tactics.

There are the Geneva Conventions and there are other international treaties. Based on those we accuse both parties of "war crimes" - i.e. breaking the law/rules/treaties.

I am sure not all Palestinians want Hamas there. But I am sure some want the terrorism.

It's hard to say but I think that less then half of the Palestinians supports the terrorism but very few would do anything against it.

 

[Jimmy]

There are the Geneva Conventions and there are other international treaties. Based on those we accuse both parties of "war crimes" - i.e. breaking the law/rules/treaties.


It's hard to say but I think that less then half of the Palestinians supports the terrorism but very few would do anything against it.

That’s a lot of terrorist supporters. I guess it makes them terrorists too.

 

[metis]

I mean....the whole Palestine situation from top to bottom. They have already killed more civilians in response to the attack than died in the initial attack. Over the last 15 years 380 Israeli's have died but over 6k Palestinian civilians have died. They turned off water and power to millions of people (colloquially known as a war crime) who exist in an open air prison camp controlled entirely by Israel. Used white phosphorous (another war crime) as confirmed by Human Rights Watch. Just today they have demanded an evacuation of over a million people within a 24 hour window. Something both Human Rights groups and Israel themselves have stated is impossible.
And this is just from the last week. IF we want to talk about Israel's track record on Palestine prior to this event it gets much worse. Especially since the west bank, which is peaceful and not ruled by Hamas, still gets shafted by Israel.

The one Palestinian diplomat in the UK that did all of those interviews over the course of like 2 days personally had family members killed by Israel from an indiscriminate bombing. And yet time and time again the only question asked is "do you condemn Hamas" as if he isn't representing the ONLY Palestinian political group opposing Hamas.

With the above, did Israel initiate any of the military action?

 

[sun rise]

Since this thread is about prayers or at least that was the intent: "May the light of God's silence break in every heart. Let there be peace and love among all beings of the universe" - This is a modification of a prayer spoken by Papaji. And a prayer/round recorded for those following Avatar Meher Baba at the time of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I mean....the whole Palestine situation from top to bottom. They have already killed more civilians in response to the attack than died in the initial attack. Over the last 15 years 380 Israeli's have died but over 6k Palestinian civilians have died. They turned off water and power to millions of people (colloquially known as a war crime) who exist in an open air prison camp controlled entirely by Israel. Used white phosphorous (another war crime) as confirmed by Human Rights Watch. Just today they have demanded an evacuation of over a million people within a 24 hour window. Something both Human Rights groups and Israel themselves have stated is impossible.
And this is just from the last week. IF we want to talk about Israel's track record on Palestine prior to this event it gets much worse. Especially since the west bank, which is peaceful and not ruled by Hamas, still gets shafted by Israel.

These things Israel have done (right or wrong) were in response to attacks. Turning off water was under a condition of getting back the hostage's that were taken. Israel does not govern Gaza, does not want to. You need a peace partner to broker peace, Israel does not have a peace partner. Hamas wants Israel not to exist and have shown they do not want peace. When did Israel deliberately kill babies, rape Palestinians or took Palestinians hostage or attacked Gaza unprovoked?

The one Palestinian diplomat in the UK that did all of those interviews over the course of like 2 days personally had family members killed by Israel from an indiscriminate bombing. And yet time and time again the only question asked is "do you condemn Hamas" as if he isn't representing the ONLY Palestinian political group opposing Hamas.

I have not seen these interviews.