Prejudice against Qur'an.

[Crypto2015]

The problem "I see" lies at how the foundation of belief is followed. Every follower a literalist living fanaticism.

There is no moderation in belief, it is all or nothing. Either one is a muslim living fundamentalism or one is not a muslim.

You place the book over reality IMHO, and you will not open your minds to criticism to any part of the book.

Most Christians here live, and devote some time to religion.

Muslism live religion and everything else is second.

Were talking about extreme levels of required fanaticism.

Won't you even consider the fact that Christianity and Islam are completely opposed to each other in terms of morality? A fundamentalist Christian that takes his faith seriously goes to Africa to volunteer in a hospital. A fundamentalist Muslim who takes his faith seriously goes to Syria to behead people. Both are following their sacred texts to the letter. The real problem with Western Society is that you are blind to all sort of ideologies because you see everything through the deceiving glass of moral relativism. According to moral relativism, all religions teach the same things and all religious experiences are equivalent. Nothing could be farther from the truth. This blindness is what prevents you from understanding the ideology behind Islamic terrorism. Anything that does not fit well with the tenets of moral relativism is regarded as offensive.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Won't you even consider the fact that Christianity and Islam are completely opposed to each other in terms of morality? A fundamentalist Christian that takes his faith seriously goes to Africa to volunteer in a hospital. A fundamentalist Muslim who takes his faith seriously goes to Syria to behead people. Both are following their sacred texts to the letter.

Not true.
Fundamentalist Christians go to Africa and export their homophobia to places like Sudan or Nigeria where they whip people up into a bigoted anti-gay fervour and use their prejudices as justification for repressive laws.
Fundamentalist Christians stay at home and campaign to restrict the right of women to bodily autonomy and not infrequently (in America) resort to tactics up to & including deadly violence against abortion clinics & doctors who work there to try and force everyone else to live by their values.
Fundamentalist Christians seek to maintain their religion's privilege in Western societies such as attempting to monopolise placements of religious objects on government property; the presence of reserved seats purely for Anglican clerics in the UK's House of Lords; the mandatory presence of at least 2 Christians on my local (that is to say, Scottish) council education committees etc.
Fundamentalist Christians also live in Africa and have been committing genocide against Muslims in the Central African Republic. As of last January, the Muslim population of CAR's capital, Bangui, had been reduced from 130,000 - 145,000 to just 900.

Anybody who thinks the Bible scripture can't be used to justify repression & atrocities like the Quran can is suffering from significant religious amnesia. Christianity is no different.

The real problem with Western Society is that you are blind to all sort of ideologies because you see everything through the deceiving glass of moral relativism. According to moral relativism, all religions teach the same things and all religious experiences are equivalent. Nothing could be farther from the truth. This blindness is what prevents you from understanding the ideology behind Islamic terrorism. Anything that does not fit well with the tenets of moral relativism is regarded as offensive.

So your solution to counter an intolerant, violent Middle Eastern monotheism is for Western society to cosy up with another intolerant, violent Middle Eastern monotheism?

 

[CATSISS]

Not true.
Fundamentalist Christians go to Africa and export their homophobia to places like Sudan or Nigeria where they whip people up into a bigoted anti-gay fervour and use their prejudices as justification for repressive laws.
Fundamentalist Christians stay at home and campaign to restrict the right of women to bodily autonomy and not infrequently (in America) resort to tactics up to & including deadly violence against abortion clinics & doctors who work there to try and force everyone else to live by their values.
Fundamentalist Christians seek to maintain their religion's privilege in Western societies such as attempting to monopolise placements of religious objects on government property; the presence of reserved seats purely for Anglican clerics in the UK's House of Lords; the mandatory presence of at least 2 Christians on local council education committees etc.
Fundamentalist Christians also live in Africa and have been committing genocide against Muslims in the Central African Republic. As of last January, the Muslim population of CAR's capital, Bangui, had been reduced from 130,000 - 45,000 to just 900.

Anybody who thinks the Bible scripture can't be used to justify repression & atrocities like the Quran can is suffering from significant religious amnesia. Christianity is no different.




So your solution to counter an intolerant, violent Middle Eastern monotheism is for Western society to cosy up with another intolerant, violent Middle Eastern monotheism?

EXACTLY!!!!!,christians always help people just to preach their nonsense.

 

[Augustus]

Should Muslims themselves do more or are we doing more but get no coverage from the media as that's not what they wish to propagate about Islam.

Some media outlets do have a bias against Islam - Fox and the other Murdoch one's clearly do. The idea that most media don't cover favourable Islamic stories out of prejudice is misleading though. The negative stories are just more newsworthy and thus get more attention.

Maybe Muslims who wish to convey a positive message need to understand the media a bit better to generate the positive coverage. The "you ain't no Muslim bruv" got plenty of coverage because it is media friendly, so did the 'Happy Muslims" meme.

The media will cover anything newsworthy, the trick is to make whatever you want to convey newsworthy, although this is the challenging part. PR agencies do it all the time though, perhaps it just needs a bit more organisation and imagination.

It will always run into the problem that it can never really be as newsworthy as the negative stories though.

 

[Demonslayer]

Fundamentalist Christians go to Africa and export their homophobia to places like Sudan or Nigeria where they whip people up into a bigoted anti-gay fervour and use their prejudices as justification for repressive laws.
Fundamentalist Christians stay at home and campaign to restrict the right of women to bodily autonomy and not infrequently (in America) resort to tactics up to & including deadly violence against abortion clinics & doctors who work there to try and force everyone else to live by their values.
Fundamentalist Christians seek to maintain their religion's privilege in Western societies such as attempting to monopolise placements of religious objects on government property; the presence of reserved seats purely for Anglican clerics in the UK's House of Lords; the mandatory presence of at least 2 Christians on local council education committees etc.
Fundamentalist Christians also live in Africa and have been committing genocide against Muslims in the Central African Republic. As of last January, the Muslim population of CAR's capital, Bangui, had been reduced from 130,000 - 45,000 to just 900.

Anybody who thinks the Bible scripture can't be used to justify repression & atrocities like the Quran can is suffering from significant religious amnesia. Christianity is no different.

This, excellent post.

 

[Augustus]

Fundamentalist Christians go to Africa and export their homophobia to places like Sudan or Nigeria where they whip people up into a bigoted anti-gay fervour and use their prejudices as justification for repressive laws.

This is really a problem with African Christians rather than 'exported'. Religious problem yes, but a native African one.

Fundamentalist Christians also live in Africa and have been committing genocide against Muslims in the Central African Republic. As of last January, the Muslim population of CAR's capital, Bangui, had been reduced from 130,000 - 45,000 to just 900.

Not to defend the actions, but this happened in response to violence by the Seleka Muslim rebel group that seized control in the country and committed many atrocities until they were overthrown. The Anti-balaka counter insurgency is not fundamentalist Christian, but a mixed coalition of non-Muslim militias who, after defeating the Seleka, took out their anger on innocent Muslim civilians who they targeted in revenge attacks. It's also more ethnic cleansing rather than genocide, as most people fled although many were murdered (not that this makes it 'better').

It's far more political than it is religious, but this doesn't mitigate it.

 

[Parsimony]

Prejudice against Qur'an exposed via social experiment

http://www.dailysabah.com/religion/2015/12/06/prejudice-against-quran-exposed-via-social-experiment

Do you agree/disagree that this is the norm of western thinking about Islam.

Do you think it's the media that's responsible for it or is it just what people choose to believe.

What could be an effective way to counter it. Should Muslims themselves do more or are we doing more but get no coverage from the media as that's not what they wish to propagate about Islam.

Do you think all religions should be tolerated and not just Islam? Just curious.

 

[Unification]

EXACTLY!!!!!,christians always help people just to preach their nonsense.

Fundamental, not all.

 

[Unification]

Sorry,but there is no such thing as islam inner peace,it literally means submit.

Same root word.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is really a problem with African Christians rather than 'exported'. Religious problem yes, but a native African one.

I disagree. The problem of Christian homophobia in Africa is more than likely home-grown, yes, but evangelical pastors such as Scott Lively and Mike Bickle are very significant contributors to the problem. They're stoking the fires of hatred in African countries because they're failing to convince the American public.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-evangelical-christians-stoked-homophobia-uganda-claims-film-1440460

Not to defend the actions, but this happened in response to violence by the Seleka Muslim rebel group that seized control in the country and committed many atrocities until they were overthrown. The Anti-balaka counter insurgency is not fundamentalist Christian, but a mixed coalition of non-Muslim militias who, after defeating the Seleka, took out their anger on innocent Muslim civilians who they targeted in revenge attacks. It's also more ethnic cleansing rather than genocide, as most people fled although many were murdered (not that this makes it 'better').

It's far more political than it is religious, but this doesn't mitigate it.

Context can help, sure. The Seleka rose up because the previous Christian president repressed them, apparently. Context aside, they're still committing mass-murder. Ethnic cleansing is a synonym for genocide - so you're not wrong. It's strange though - because there was no coverage of this when it was the Muslims killing & repressing Christians following their coup.

And I agree - this is more about revenge than 'killing the non-believer because they're non-believers'.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Wow, looks like I've touched a nerve with my last post. Let's take this step by step.

This is all false.

I'll give you examples below to show that you are incorrect.

Christianity is not a political movement

Tell that to the Dominionist movement; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology

and the more evangelical elements of the Republican Party in America who are fielding Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush and a number of other candidates who are aggressively Christian both in temperament and in how they plan to govern.

http://www.theocracywatch.org

Oh, and there exist right-wing Christian-oriented parties in the Western world. The Christian Party (in various parts of the UK) is a good example.

http://www.ukchristianparty.org

... as well as political movements such as Pegida, the BNP, Britain First and others who advocate Christianity as a direct counter to Islam.

and any attempt to equate Christianity and Islam is nothing but ignorance or dishonesty.

It's an honest look at the former's history as well as current events, actually.

• Islam dominates politics in various nations now - Christianity did from 380 AD onwards and continued to do so for millennia.
• Islam enacts religious repression, segregation and intolerance; Christianity stamped out various forms of Paganisms and tried to stamp out Hinduism, Native American, Australian and numerous African belief systems. With the exception of Native American & Australian beliefs, Islam has done the same thing with these same religions.
• Both Islam & Christianity have histories riddled with sectarian bloodshed.
• The only argument you can make to Christianity being more civilised is that Christian nations do not now engage in the same level of repression as Muslim nations. But that's not to do with the benevolence of Christian theology; it's to do with the Enlightenment and associated rise in secular governance muzzling Christianity and reducing its influence on the corridors of power.

You in the UK shamefully kill your babies, especially if they have Down Syndrome. All generations will remember you as butchers and murderers of the worst kind.

What does this have to do with anything I've said?

Oh, and do you have a source to back this idea up that we abort foetuses "especially if they have Down Syndrome"?

Christians frown upon your genocide and that is why you hate them.

I don't hate Christians. I'm not a huge fan of Christianity - but then how could I like a religious system that deliberately stamped out the worship of my (and other peoples') gods and the foundations of some of the most brilliant cultures the world has ever seen? But more than anything else I can't stand hypocrisy, wilful ignorance and historical revisionism.

 

[beenie]

I'm not sure who I'm worried about more... the Islamic radicals or some posters in this thread. Holy anger, batman.

 

[Unification]

I'm not sure who I'm worried about more... the Islamic radicals or some posters in this thread. Holy anger, batman.

Everywhere that is turned there are always many trying to steal and hijack peace, everyone else is always at fault and to blame...I suppose the finger is always pointing without realization that three of those fingers are pointing at the pointer. I'll call the thumb neutral, but that's usually likely to be pointing at yet another separate party who is being blamed.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

According to moral relativism, all religions teach the same things and all religious experiences are equivalent.

Rubbish.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I'm not sure who I'm worried about more... the Islamic radicals or some posters in this thread. Holy anger, batman.

What do you suggest? If someone killed a family member or friend of yours, you wouldn't get angry? You wouldn't want justice? And what if a religion or political group actively worked to violate the rights of others, you would say or do nothing?

All humans have an equal right to their life, liberty, property and to defend themselves. But when someone violates another's rights, they forfeit their own. Anything else is subjective morality/anarchy.

 

[outhouse]

Muhammad ****ed aisha when she was 9 can u believe that?,

maybe younger. we don't know, the whole 9 is like what they state to make it more publically acceptable.

 

[outhouse]

I'm not sure who I'm worried about more... the Islamic radicals or some posters in this thread. Holy anger, batman.

Its a tough time right now. Innocent people are being murdered globally because of this religion embarrassing humanity almost daily.

We are at war with muslims, yet we are not at war with all muslims.

We are at war with fanaticism, and islam requires all muslims to live deep fanaticism.

There are no good answers to the massive problems that lie in islam

 

[outhouse]

Some media outlets do have a bias against Islam

Yes they tell the truth and people often hate the truth

The negative stories are just more newsworthy and thus get more attention.

News is news. Its always been a telling of for the most part,negative things. Is why islam is always in the news.

It may not be all negative, but we have a problem of the world growing up and around and away from the foundation of required fanaticism and fundamentalism.

 

[Crypto2015]

I'm not sure who I'm worried about more... the Islamic radicals or some posters in this thread. Holy anger, batman.

I won't blow you up or shoot you. I guess that answers your question.

 

[Crypto2015]

Wow, looks like I've touched a nerve with my last post. Let's take this step by step.



I'll give you examples below to show that you are incorrect.



Tell that to the Dominionist movement; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology

and the more evangelical elements of the Republican Party in America who are fielding Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush and a number of other candidates who are aggressively Christian both in temperament and in how they plan to govern.

http://www.theocracywatch.org

Oh, and there exist right-wing Christian-oriented parties in the Western world. The Christian Party (in various parts of the UK) is a good example.

http://www.ukchristianparty.org

... as well as political movements such as Pegida, the BNP, Britain First and others who advocate Christianity as a direct counter to Islam.



It's an honest look at the former's history as well as current events, actually.

• Islam dominates politics in various nations now - Christianity did from 380 AD onwards and continued to do so for millennia.
• Islam enacts religious repression, segregation and intolerance; Christianity stamped out various forms of Paganisms and tried to stamp out Hinduism, Native American, Australian and numerous African belief systems. With the exception of Native American & Australian beliefs, Islam has done the same thing with these same religions.
• Both Islam & Christianity have histories riddled with sectarian bloodshed.
• The only argument you can make to Christianity being more civilised is that Christian nations do not now engage in the same level of repression as Muslim nations. But that's not to do with the benevolence of Christian theology; it's to do with the Enlightenment and associated rise in secular governance muzzling Christianity and reducing its influence on the corridors of power.

What does this have to do with anything I've said?

Oh, and do you have a source to back this idea up that we abort foetuses "especially if they have Down Syndrome"?



I don't hate Christians. I'm not a huge fan of Christianity - but then how could I like a religious system that deliberately stamped out the worship of my (and other peoples') gods and the foundations of some of the most brilliant cultures the world has ever seen? But more than anything else I can't stand hypocrisy, wilful ignorance and historical revisionism.

Christianity is not a political movement in itself. On the contrary, Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world and ran away from those who wanted to crown him as their king. Islam is a political movement in itself. Muhammad’s ultimate goal was the establishment of a global caliphate. He actively pursued this goal by waging warfare on its contemporaries. Moreover, all Muslims are commanded by the Qur’an to strive for the establishment of the global caliphate using all the means that are available to them, including violence. I had never heard about the Christian “extremist” groups that you mentioned. I bet that most people haven’t either. You know why? Because they are a small minority that are not supported by the Christian scriptures. Moreover, they rarely, if ever, engage in violence. Compare this to Islamic organizations such ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, and Al-Nusra. Everyone has heard of them. Why? Because they represent the opinions of the most renowned Islamic commentators and follow the example of Muhammad to the letter. Also, they routinely engage in extreme violence.



More than 80% of the foetuses with Down Syndrome are aborted in the UK. Google it.