Pro Life or Pro Choice?

[Wirey]

I think you should be able to tell a woman to have the baby as long as you're willing to pay for it. I believe a kid runs around $300,000 a pop with university these days. If all you got is mouth, then allow me to be the first to invite you to the "Put Up Or Shut Up Hour". When you're a pregnant 17 year old who was raped by her stepfather and is terrified of the beatings to follow, then you get to run your mouth. When you're a college girl who had a contraceptive device fail and are looking at a lifetimes work destroyed, then you get to run your mouth. If you're equipped with testicles, meh, not so much.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I am pro-choice, but hope that women would consider other alternatives first.

 

[s2a]

I think you should be able to tell a woman to have the baby as long as you're willing to pay for it. I believe a kid runs around $300,000 a pop with university these days. If all you got is mouth, then allow me to be the first to invite you to the "Put Up Or Shut Up Hour". When you're a pregnant 17 year old who was raped by her stepfather and is terrified of the beatings to follow, then you get to run your mouth. When you're a college girl who had a contraceptive device fail and are looking at a lifetimes work destroyed, then you get to run your mouth. If you're equipped with testicles, meh, not so much.

So, an unemployed 16 year old kid should say what a 15 year old gal should do? That makes sense to you? In what dream world do you reside? I'm gonna guess you are NOT female.

Wrap that rascal, or S T F U.

Why you would EVER feel entitled to a override an entire lifetime, say, of another persons existence after 10 seconds of "popping off"?, I swear I will never understand.

The truly sad aspect of this "argument", is that it often boils down to issues of economics and costs. $300k is a lot of money. A lot.TEll you what. GIve $300k (up front) to any prospective pregnant teen to then choose on their own to bear a child, or if they decide to abort, they have to give all that money back. Fair? Then we can better see if it's "just about the money".

I can forgive the ignorance of youth in this matter, yet the complete absence of adoptive "young adults" as "solution" to unwanted children "forced to term" (regardless of potential imperfections and defects), is patently obvious.

If potentially adoptive parents were just "out there"...why are then so many un-adopted teenagers? How can that be? Is it akin to the animal shelter aspects of adoptions that he overwhelming majority prefer kittens/puppies over middle-aged/adult dogs and cats?

I presume you have already adopted at least one unwanted child so far, with other prospects in the wings?

Hmmm?

 

[Wirey]

The truly sad aspect of this "argument", is that it often boils down to issues of economics and costs. $300k is a lot of money. A lot.TEll you what. GIve $300k (up front) to any prospective pregnant teen to then choose on their own to bear a child, or if they decide to abort, they have to give all that money back. Fair? Then we can better see if it's "just about the money".

Who said give teenagers money to get pregnant? I said you pay the bills. May I assume you're in?

And I'm okay with abortion for the specific reason that it's the woman's life. Asking if I adopted a kid is the opposite of that.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Was this thread about abortion in the first place or has it too this direction at some point?

All I see in the OP is a question about which is prefered; life or choice. Or maybe it is a western expression related to abortion maybe?

We don't have this problem of abortion here in Saudi Arabia so I cannot comment much about it. I do however have a question: is abortion murder? I mean, the baby inside the womb is a living being too!

 

[Buttercup]

I can never give an easy, straight answer to this question.

I hate abortion.
I believe life begins at conception.
I am Pro Life.

I talked a friend out of having an abortion just before her appointment because I knew her well enough to know she'd hate herself if she went through with it. I helped her to see she had other options. She still thanks me 25 years later.

I do not believe I have the right to make decisions for another woman's body.
I do not judge women who have had abortions.
If given the opportunity, I would vote Pro Choice.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hmmm...

So, what happens to the aborted babies? Do they have proper burials/funerals like we do?

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. It is just as I said before that we don't face this problem here so I can't even think something.

The only thing I can think of is: no matter what caused that pregnancy to happen, it is not the baby's fault to die like that

Oh God, now I feel gloomy

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hmmm...

So, what happens to the aborted babies? Do they have proper burials/funerals like we do?

No, they're disposed of as medical waste.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do however have a question: is abortion murder? I mean, the baby inside the womb is a living being too!

If you're pro-life, you'll probably say yes. If you're pro-choice, you'll probably say no.

 

[Smart_Guy]

No, they're disposed of as medical waste.

This is.... no comment

If you're pro-life, you'll probably say yes. If you're pro-choice, you'll probably say no.

What about scientifically? Life wise?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This is.... no comment

Yeah, I know. I'm pro-life, by the way.

What about scientifically? Life wise?

It depends on how you want to define a "person". However, if you attack or kill a pregnant woman and she loses the baby, you could be charged for the death of the unborn child. Go figure.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Life is so screwed up

 

[Thruve]

Life is so screwed up

Whats the culture there in Saudi have to say about this subject?
Rather curious.

 

[Zardoz]

I don't know what to think about this honestly.

I knew this one lady who liked to sleep around with random guys a lot. She got pregnant 3 times and each time she just went and got an abortion. She was literally using it as a form of birth control. She just didn't want to have to deal with having a kid. It think it's sickening and deplorable.

^ This. Abortion as 'birth control' is deplorable. However, voted Pro-Choice because just if some are bad apples it shouldn't make those with legitimate need suffer. Some 'Pro-Life' proponents won't allow for abortions even if the woman's life is in serious jeopardy due to medical reasons. Prefer she die in childbirth it seems. That is far,far more deplorable.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Whats the culture there in Saudi have to say about this subject?
Rather curious.

Never really had a thought or research about it, simply because it is something I never come across (done by anyone) in my whole life. But my collection of teachings, the same teaching that go in my community, say it is absolutely wrong.

I'm sure if anyone stood in favor of it here, everyone else will not approve.

It is just never right to push one's burden (the pregnant women's) on someone else (the innocent baby's). It is just not fare. We do not ahve the right to control one's life and death.

The public opinion here is the same as mine above.

 

[Thruve]

Never really had a thought or research about it, simply because it is something I never come across (done by anyone) in my whole life. But my collection of teachings, the same teaching that go in my community, say it is absolutely wrong.

I'm sure if anyone stood in favor of it here, everyone else will not approve.

It is just never right to push one's burden (the pregnant women's) on someone else (the innocent baby's). It is just not fare. We do not ahve the right to control one's life and death.

The public opinion here is the same as mine above.

I agree with you.
I'm under the presumption that many women who are pro choice either had an abortion, and need a card to escape the possible guilt/guilt to come, or know someone who's had one and deemed it justified. Otherwise, I'd tell them it's to bad you weren't aborted, cause you might as well have been.


I'm looking for the study that shows the % of women in their later years, with children or not, who often end up mildly depressed because they had an abortikn in their younger years. Looking...

 

[Smart_Guy]

I do believe abortion is hands down wrong, but somehow I can't be harsh on some women for doing it. We are humans and have moments of weakness sometimes and do things out of semi-dominant emotions like fear.

My message to those women is to try to be strong. With abortion you're destroying a life. What guilt has that life committed to deserve such an act? Your misfortune, if the pregnancy was caused by one, is yours to take care of, not the innocent baby's. With abortion you make two misfortunes out of one with your own hands. Abortion will not change the fact that the misfortune already took place (if there was one, I repeat). If the pregnancy was not cause by a misfortune, then it was cause by your own irresponsibility. How could you let your own irresponsible acts take the life of someone else (the baby's). Be responsible. Be respectable. Be A HUMAN. Not sure but, do animals do abortion? If they do, and I think they don't, do they do it on daily bases? We are better than animals in the department of humanity (duh!). Think also of the case scenario given by Thruve. That child could have been you as some point and wouldn't have been around now.

Sorry, I got serious here. I snapped as I felt that abortion is not far from murdering innocent people around.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

This is.... no comment



What about scientifically? Life wise?

The Roe vs Wade SCOTUS opinion is the most sound write up to this day. It strikes a middle ground between absolute positions that grants women self-agency while also granting a modicum of protection toward the growing fetus. It does so because it constitutionally introduces the term "fetal viability", in which a fetus can be medically determined to be able to survive outside the uterus, it then can be granted personhood. Before that point of viability (which is a range and not a hard-and-fast point in gestation), the fetus is not granted personhood and the woman's self-determination is granted legal priority.

As much as pro-life people are shocked at the idea of a woman "killing a baby", I'm just as disgusted and shocked that people are willing to coerce, force, and shame a woman to endure a pregnancy because they consider a blastocyst as more important than her health.

Pro-choice people can be just as indignant about the inhumanity of the other side's position.

 

[Thruve]

The Roe vs Wade SCOTUS opinion is the most sound write up to this day. It strikes a middle ground between absolute positions that grants women self-agency while also granting a modicum of protection toward the growing fetus. It does so because it constitutionally introduces the term "fetal viability", in which a fetus can be medically determined to be able to survive outside the uterus, it then can be granted personhood. Before that point of viability (which is a range and not a hard-and-fast point in gestation), the fetus is not granted personhood and the woman's self-determination is granted legal priority.

As much as pro-life people are shocked at the idea of a woman "killing a baby", I'm just as disgusted and shocked that people are willing to coerce, force, and shame a woman to endure a pregnancy because they consider a blastocyst as more important than her health.

Pro-choice people can be just as indignant about the inhumanity of the other side's position.

majority of women who get abortions don't do it over health reasons. I've had WAY to many friends who got abortions due to other reasons I won't discuss here /thread. You must assume that those who are pro life are completely ok with abortions in certain Situations. If the mother could die? Yes! Was she raped and got pregnant? Yes! Uh dur...

Majority of abortions on the other hand. No.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

majority of women who get abortions don't do it over health reasons. I've had WAY to many friends who got abortions due to other reasons I won't discuss here /thread. You must assume that those who are pro life are completely ok with abortions in certain Situations. If the mother could die? Yes! Was she raped and got pregnant? Yes! Uh dur...

Majority of abortions on the other hand. No.

You assume "health reasons" to be "more life threatening", or that the fetus is showing signs of an anamoly that is life threatening when born.

I'm including how pregnancy changes a woman's body....her blood pressure, her blood sugar levels, her hormones, her digestive system....it's a health issue that is all-consuming for her. This is why when a woman goes in to see an OB/GYN for pre-natal care, her vitals are taken and the entire process is focused primarily on her health with the development of the fetus as secondary in the evaluations.

Again, you're reducing pregnancy down to an "inconvenience" (which I've pointed out before as being a far far cry from the reality) and which is a tactic many pro-lifers offer when wanting to shame women from making their own decisions about their own bodies.

I've been pregnant twice. I have given birth twice. I've raised these kids to adulthood. I also was pro-life for many years before I realized how my rhetoric was hateful and shaming of women, and I quickly changed my perspective to be more compassionate.

If I was pro-choice back then? I'd have chosen to carry the pregnancies to term and to do what I've been doing. I support women who choose to carry to term. If it's what they want to do, all the power to them.

If a woman seriously does not want to go through 9 months of her health being overwhelmingly altered, go through labor and delivery, and have to make a decision to keep the newborn or to go through the process of giving the newborn up for adoption, all the power to her. It's her body.

I've lived on this planet for a while, and I know plenty of women who have had abortions. The majority of them are quite content and are at peace with their decisions. But many of them don't want to discuss it with certain people around because they know they'll be confronted with the whole "you killed your baby" rhetoric, and it's not worth the time or their stomach acid.