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Unification

Well-Known Member
One after another.

Never provides sources

Those sources are all fundamental scientific laws of nature. If you'd like me to list them, I can.

If you'd like to chime in, and help Mestemia provide a credible source on how a delusional mind can exist in an all physical/material world, and keep it an all physical/material world, please do so.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
There really are evidences, and scientists are finding themselves more and more forced to view that the brain is a receiver of consciousness. It's hard to let go of this for the material believer, just as it is for a dogmatic and doctrinated mind to let go of religion. No different.
Saying that there are "evidences" out there or that "scientists" are discovering "more and more" believing that the external source of consciousness, like from spirits or from deity/deities, then you have to provide sources of who said or wrote what?

I have only just began questioning you about this transcendent "consciousness" you are talking about, but others have already done so x-numbers of replies ago:
  1. You have never being able to define what this "spirit" is.
  2. You have never being able to say WHOSE consciousness it is.
  3. You have ignored all attempts to cite these sources with these so-called "evidences" or "scientists" who believe the same such as you do.
I am beginning that to suspect that the sources of your information come from - not from "real" science - but from science fiction, like the various TV series or films of Star Trek. Or perhaps from the movie Transcendence.

There have also been a lot of philosophies that have discussed the nature of reality and the consciousness, but none of these philosophies or sci-fi are "science".
 

gnostic

The Lost One
It is morning here, but I am still in bed, Mestemia, with my iPad, and once again I have tried to squash that bug, only to realise it is not real! :oops:

:p
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Saying that there are "evidences" out there or that "scientists" are discovering "more and more" believing that the external source of consciousness, like from spirits or from deity/deities, then you have to provide sources of who said or wrote what?

I have only just began questioning you about this transcendent "consciousness" you are talking about, but others have already done so x-numbers of replies ago:
  1. You have never being able to define what this "spirit" is.
  2. You have never being able to say WHOSE consciousness it is.
  3. You have ignored all attempts to cite these sources with these so-called "evidences" or "scientists" who believe the same such as you do.
I am beginning that to suspect that the sources of your information come from - not from "real" science - but from science fiction, like the various TV series or films of Star Trek. Or perhaps from the movie Transcendence.

There have also been a lot of philosophies that have discussed the nature of reality and the consciousness, but none of these philosophies or sci-fi are "science".

Define your own definition of science, please. Do you believe in an all physical/material world? If so, there are plenty of evidences discovered that intrude on this, with the more knowledge that is revealed and discovered. Forcing that, at the very least, into the quantum realm. Just as hard as it is for a dogma and doctrine of a religion believer to leave that based on evidence, it's seeming just as difficult for an all physical/materialist world believer to leave that based upon evidence. Ignoring evidence works both ways. The material/physical world belief will eventually be extinct just as dogmatic and doctrine belief will be extinct. If the one holding on to such views would like to, it's their own reality that they create. . But ignoring evidence doesn't make it go away.

The definition of deity is everything that you are. A deity.

In order for a delusive mind to exist, create what it wants, dream of what it wants, imagine what it wants, feel what is wants, have its own reality, primordial consciousness/spirit is necessary for the ability to experience any possible infinite outcome of potential. No way around it. One can decide themselves all that they want, there is no way around it, doesn't go away. The universe is based on opposites. There are laws for that. Why wouldn't there be an opposite for physical/material as non-physical/non-matter? Why would our physical brains and bodies be exempt from the physical natural laws of science?

2. Are you conscious? Anything else in the universe conscious?

3. Sources are everywhere. Since you create your own ego-based reality, it's on you individually to conclude in your own mental world which sources you accept and which you don't. There is Einstein, Tesla, Newton, Bohr, so many modern day physicists, quantum physicists, every other branch of science.

There is no such thing as "real" science. The individual observer deems what they feel or think is real to them. What's determined "credible" to you individually is your own source. Ignoring evidences from other branches, particularly quantum... Doesn't make them go away. When one can accept all evidences, and not just the ones they want to, or label themselves as true and others false, reply please. It's near impossible having a conversation with a mind that's cognitive dissonant, even when ones own laws of science are neglected for their own beliefs and delusions.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
3. Sources are everywhere. Since you create your own ego-based reality, it's on you individually to conclude in your own mental world which sources you accept and which you don't. There is Einstein, Tesla, Newton, Bohr, so many modern day physicists, quantum physicists, every other branch of science.

You cannot not name a single, credible scientific source, can you?

This reply of yours, like in the above quote, only demonstrating your evasiveness and dishonesty, nothing more, nothing less.

None of the scientists you have listed above relate to their contributions to physics to this higher consciousness, you have been claiming to exist. You are just yabbering, by throwing words like "physics" and "quantum" with this "consciousness", which really has no context at all.

But I see all this as nothing more than a ploy, to avoid citing any actual source.

Thank you, Unification. You have just convinced me of your dishonesty and circular thinking for your claim of higher consciousness.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
You cannot not name a single, credible scientific source, can you?

This reply of yours, like in the above quote, only demonstrating your evasiveness and dishonesty, nothing more, nothing less.

None of the scientists you have listed above relate to their contributions to physics to this higher consciousness, you have been claiming to exist. You are just yabbering, by throwing words like "physics" and "quantum" with this "consciousness", which really has no context at all.

But I see all this as nothing more than a ploy, to avoid citing any actual source.

Thank you, Unification. You have just convinced me of your dishonesty and circular thinking for your claim of higher consciousness.

Get honest and aware with yourself,

Are you arguing that since we humans are conscious, this proves the brain is producing consciousness, because, where else could we look for an explanation?

Which is called circular reasoning. Meaning: you already assume your faith and belief with no evidence. That is being dishonest with your own self. If you're not aware of this and another is, would that make someone less aware and another more aware. Since you're honest and I'm dishonest in your mind, does that make you more consciously aware than me? Why would you call anyone an idiot or delusive if all levels of consciousness are the same?

Evasiveness and dishonesty: strong claim yet not saying how so. Strong attacks and assumptions without saying how so. Sounds like dishonesty with oneself, and spreading dishonesty of another.

If you're ignorant of the fact that many scientists, physicists, and quantum physicists, both old school and modern day, have and are exploring consciousness outside of the brain as well, that's your choice. Use your material I-pad and search yourself about the millions of studies of consciousness outside of the brain, and all of the scientists exploring this. It's being explored both inside and outside.

"Credible." What is credible? You determine yourself what's credible anyhow.

Trick of the lower mind, being evasive and avoiding themselves and attacking another as if they are, diversion of attention. Please clear up what was dishonest, and avoided. If you truly need me to show you evidence as to why and that it is occurring in reality that scientists are exploring that, I will. It's common sense this is occurring because consciousness cannot be localized in the brain. The most logical explanation is that is because it is nonlocal, meaning an infinite phenomenon.

Consciousness can operate beyond the brain, body, and the present, as hundreds of experiments and millions of testimonials affirm. Look up the experiments yourself. They really are occurring in reality.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
If you're ignorant of the fact that many scientists, physicists, and quantum physicists, both old school and modern day, have and are exploring consciousness outside of the brain as well,

Looking, not finding ANYTHING. means nothing at all.


PROVIDE SOURCES
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Get honest and aware with yourself,

Are you arguing that since we humans are conscious, this proves the brain is producing consciousness, because, where else could we look for an explanation?

Which is called circular reasoning. Meaning: you already assume your faith and belief with no evidence. That is being dishonest with your own self. If you're not aware of this and another is, would that make someone less aware and another more aware. Since you're honest and I'm dishonest in your mind, does that make you more consciously aware than me? Why would you call anyone an idiot or delusive if all levels of consciousness are the same?

Evasiveness and dishonesty: strong claim yet not saying how so. Strong attacks and assumptions without saying how so. Sounds like dishonesty with oneself, and spreading dishonesty of another.

If you're ignorant of the fact that many scientists, physicists, and quantum physicists, both old school and modern day, have and are exploring consciousness outside of the brain as well, that's your choice. Use your material I-pad and search yourself about the millions of studies of consciousness outside of the brain, and all of the scientists exploring this. It's being explored both inside and outside.

"Credible." What is credible? You determine yourself what's credible anyhow.

Trick of the lower mind, being evasive and avoiding themselves and attacking another as if they are, diversion of attention. Please clear up what was dishonest, and avoided. If you truly need me to show you evidence as to why and that it is occurring in reality that scientists are exploring that, I will. It's common sense this is occurring because consciousness cannot be localized in the brain. The most logical explanation is that is because it is nonlocal, meaning an infinite phenomenon.

Consciousness can operate beyond the brain, body, and the present, as hundreds of experiments and millions of testimonials affirm. Look up the experiments yourself. They really are occurring in reality.

You do know what the subject of this thread, don't you?

It is about whether evolution is probable or impossible, mathematically or biologically.

Bringing up a few famous physicists, particularly with quantum physics, really have no bearing on the topic.

And time and time again, we have asked you for sources to back up your claims, but you have sidestepped requests, because you don't have any sources, from any of the named physicists you've named. Naming names is not giving us any source, because you have quoted a single thing that he said or wrote that give us any indications that these physicists agree with you.

That's evasiveness.

Do you understand why we ask from you, for credible or reliable scientific sources?

To determine if you are telling us that's true. Either you are ignorant or you are lying.

Have you done any research in schools or colleges or universities?

One of them is providing our sources to show what we have learn, and that we are not plagiarising other people's works. So we included books or journals that we have read in bibliography, references, in the footnotes.

I have done some personal researches in religion, particularly with the creation myths in Judaeo-Christian religions, for one of my website, and I have listed what texts I have read, and cited my sources, whenever I directly quote any passages. If I am going to quote from the bible, I will supply the book title, chapter and verse(s) with the translator's books (eg KJV, NIV, NRSV, etc)

These are my sources.

You have provided no sources, and you have mentioned names of a few physicists, and yet can't quote any of their works that agree with your claims. So basically you have nothing, but baseless claims.

If you are going to say that Bohr, Einstein or Newton have said any similar to what you have been claiming then please provide sources.

Saying sources is everywhere and dropping names, is evasive and not at all honest. Any village idiots can do that.

You want me to view you as honest person, then by all mean show us your sources. Show me that any of these physicists talk extensively about the higher consciousness or about spirits.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Looking, not finding ANYTHING. means nothing at all.


PROVIDE SOURCES

The sources are QM, "physical" laws of nature, common sense, getting aware and honest with oneself, reality, deductive logic, and consciousness.
They've been given, just ignored.

You do know what the subject of this thread, don't you?

It is about whether evolution is probable or impossible, mathematically or biologically.

Bringing up a few famous physicists, particularly with quantum physics, really have no bearing on the topic.

And time and time again, we have asked you for sources to back up your claims, but you have sidestepped requests, because you don't have any sources, from any of the named physicists you've named. Naming names is not giving us any source, because you have quoted a single thing that he said or wrote that give us any indications that these physicists agree with you.

That's evasiveness.

Do you understand why we ask from you, for credible or reliable scientific sources?

To determine if you are telling us that's true. Either you are ignorant or you are lying.

Have you done any research in schools or colleges or universities?

One of them is providing our sources to show what we have learn, and that we are not plagiarising other people's works. So we included books or journals that we have read in bibliography, references, in the footnotes.

I have done some personal researches in religion, particularly with the creation myths in Judaeo-Christian religions, for one of my website, and I have listed what texts I have read, and cited my sources, whenever I directly quote any passages. If I am going to quote from the bible, I will supply the book title, chapter and verse(s) with the translator's books (eg KJV, NIV, NRSV, etc)

These are my sources.

You have provided no sources, and you have mentioned names of a few physicists, and yet can't quote any of their works that agree with your claims. So basically you have nothing, but baseless claims.

If you are going to say that Bohr, Einstein or Newton have said any similar to what you have been claiming then please provide sources.

Saying sources is everywhere and dropping names, is evasive and not at all honest. Any village idiots can do that.

You want me to view you as honest person, then by all mean show us your sources. Show me that any of these physicists talk extensively about the higher consciousness or about spirits.

Would you like an endless supply of quotes? I don't need to be viewed as anything. I'm not different than you or any other human being.

The sources are QM, "physical" laws of nature, common sense, getting aware and honest with oneself, deductive logic, reality, experience, and consciousness. They've been given, just ignored.

Consciousness is my best source, I am my best source, as would yourself be, as would anyone be. In everyday life, you get to experience the miracle of transformation that causes a three-dimensional spatial world and one-dimensional temporal world to manifest before your very eyes. The great advantage of experience is that it isn’t theoretical. Reality is never wrong, and all of us are embedded in reality, no matter what model we apply to explain it, or what we egotistically try to avoid.

Really denotes those who have escaped the limitations of everyday and common perceptions and conditioning as well as the closed mindedness and stubbornness.

Not being distracted, and living by sight alone.

Continual exposure to something reduces our awareness of its presence. Over time, we become blind to the obvious, even the laws of nature and how we are not exempt from them and ignore and reason impossible logic with ourselves.

Without consciousness, nothing is experienced, either “in here” or “out there.”

The thread is such, we can continue on a different thread. Evolution, is very intelligent design.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
PROVIDE SOURCES

your opinion is not one.

Source: a place, person, or thing from which something comes or can be obtained.

Person: myself. I am conscious. I am a person.

Place: the universe is conscious, collectively.

Something comes or can be obtained only by consciousness, individually, and universally.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Source: a place, person, or thing from which something comes or can be obtained.

Person: myself. I am conscious. I am a person.

Place: the universe is conscious, collectively.

Something comes or can be obtained only by consciousness, individually, and universally.


No dancing or dodging allowed. Provide credible sources that what you posit is not imagination or fantasy please.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
scientists are finding themselves more and more forced to view that the brain is a receiver of consciousness

Provide sources. No dancing or dodging allowed. Provide credible sources that what you posit is not imagination or fantasy please.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Looking, not finding ANYTHING. means nothing at all.


PROVIDE SOURCES

Missing the opportunity for awareness.

It is not about finding anything. Nothing is going to be found. It's about deductive logic, what something is NOT and where it's not logical to be. If consciousness is a product of the brain itself, it defies and breaks scientific laws, and is very illogical. Both material/physically and quantumly. It even strips away any individual freedom.

It's become dogmatic and an ideology, and not science anymore, the all material universe, and the brain producing consciousness. Knowledge is revealed and evolves. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
 
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