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Propaganda: Why it is necessary for Islam

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Fatihah

Well-Known Member
Judgment said:
It appears the clever Aisha may have seen through this. Upon being caught cheating on his wives with a maid named Mariyah. Mohammed got word from Allah in the form of the following verses.

Surah: At-Tahrim: 1-5
1. O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which All�h has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And All�h is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

2. All�h has already ordained for you (O men), the dissolution of your oaths. And All�h is your Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.) and He is the All-Knower, the All-Wise.

3. And (remember) when the Prophet (SAW) disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives (Hafsah), so when she told it (to another i.e. 'Aishah), and All�h made it known to him, he informed part thereof and left a part. Then when he told her (Hafsah) thereof, she said: "Who told you this?" He said: "The All-Knower, the All-Aware (All�h) has told me".

4. If you two (wives of the Prophet SAW, namely 'Aishah and Hafsah) turn in repentance to All�h, (it will be better for you), your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet SAW likes), but if you help one another against him (Muhammad SAW), then verily, All�h is his Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.), and Jibrael (Gabriel), and the righteous among the believers, and furthermore, the angels are his helpers.

5. It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you, Muslims (who submit to All�h), believers, obedient to All�h, turning to All�h in repentance, worshipping All�h sincerely, fasting or emigrants (for All�h's sake), previously married and virgins. "

Hearing the verses - Aisha said : "Your God indeed rushes in coming to your aid!"
Click to expand...

Response: Muhammad (pbuh) was caught cheating? I see a statement. Where's the proof? If what you have quoted above is your evidence, then there really is no need to go further because even in the verses you've quoted, it says nothing of that nature.
 
F

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
Judgment said:
Is 'all' obedient to Allah ?

30:26
Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient unto Him.

2:34
We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

Response: Where is the contridiction? The first verse speaks of how the heavens and the earth are obedient. The following verse speaks of Iblis who is neither the heaven or the earth. No contridiction.

Quote: Judgement
Forgiveness ?

39:153
Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

4:168
Those who disbelieve and deal in wrong, Allah will never forgive them.

9:80
Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger.

Response:The verse you have quoted in ch.39:153 is wrong, simply due to the fact that there is no verse 153 in the chapter.

Assuming that you meant 53, again I ask, where is the contridiction? If you read the next verse, it clearly says that the sin is forgiven once they submit themselves to Allah. No sin is forgiven unless you repent and do good deeds. No contridiction.

Quote: Judgement

To God - a Son ?

39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.

6:100-1Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?


Link for Naskh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(exegesis)

Response: Again I ask, where is the contridiction.
Click to expand...
 
P

ProudMuslim

Active Member
Judgment said:
It appears the clever Aisha may have seen through this. Upon being caught cheating on his wives with a maid named Mariyah. Mohammed got word from Allah in the form of the following verses.
Click to expand...


LOL, 'Mariya' was his wife and mother of his son Ibrahim. And those verses have nothing to do with Mariya, it was between Aisha and Safiya (i think).

There are simmilarities in the content,for example loot
Click to expand...

Yes of course there are similarities in the content, we don't claim Islam came out of nothing, we do believe Islam is the successor of Judaism and Christianity. I was referring to the presentation when i said the Quran is nothing like the Bible. And the Qur'an is limited to God's words which is not the case with the Bible.
 
P

ProudMuslim

Active Member
YmirGF said:
Then of course, there were those naughty "Satanic verses". That makes one ponder what Muhammad may well have missed. Ah... the logical contradictions...
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There are no "Satanic verses", that incident is most probably invented by some orientalists.
 
Gharib

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Judgment said:
Is 'all' obedient to Allah ?

30:26
Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient unto Him.

2:34
We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.

Forgiveness ?

39:153
Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

4:168
Those who disbelieve and deal in wrong, Allah will never forgive them.

9:80
Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger.



To God - a Son ?

39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.

6:100-1Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?


Link for Naskh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(exegesis)
Click to expand...


so how do these verses contradict each other, i don't get that.
 
Gharib

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
wow you guys are loving this aren't you.

Judgement comes along saying some verses in the quran contradict each other, which even a blind person and a dumb person can see they don't

YmirGF comes along trying to encourage Judgement into more ignorace, thus the 2 are being ingorant in their own little world.

Kodanshi comes along posting stuff about things that have already been done to dissprove islam, just like he proved that Muhammed (saws) was literate.

i'm confused, what do i do next?

England is even more confused than me,

Azakel wants to read arabic but doesn't know how. doesn't even know what the arabic writting looks like.

ProudMuslim is clarifying things to Judgement about missinterpreted verses or scenarios.

Fatiha has got all the answers and yet he is wrong.

wow, where does that leave me?
 
F

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
kai said:
Oh i see! so force of arms is proof of the religion of peace, well protestant Englands vast territorial gains under the KIngs and Queens who, are after all defenders of the faith ,must mean that protestantism is the true religion.
but wait no! how about the Holy roman Empire? or the Imperial Japanese Empire? oh now i am confused
Click to expand...

Response: Yes, you are confused.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
In light of this, I want to give all Muslims a differnt kind of test. Here is the test.

Suppose the Qur'an, as it is, did not exist. Suppose that Muhammad existed right now in our world and his so-called "revelations" began at this very moment. Do you think that many would actually believe his words or do you think that most people would consider him to be mentally unsound? If you can think of any other alternative perception, I'd love to hear it.
 
Gharib

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
YmirGF said:
In light of this, I want to give all Muslims a differnt kind of test. Here is the test.

Suppose the Qur'an, as it is, did not exist. Suppose that Muhammad existed right now in our world and his so-called "revelations" began at this very moment. Do you think that many would actually believe his words or do you think that most people would consider him to be mentally unsound? If you can think of any other alternative perception, I'd love to hear it.
Click to expand...

hey nice question.

the other muslims will give you a better answer, but i'll do my part in it anyway.

if he was a trustworthy person who never lied, always helped the needy, could be trusted with his life, never seeked wealth adn treat others like dirt, my anwer would be yes. but in the revelations he would get, i would wan't accurate info from the past, and futuristic events that would have a great possibility of coming true.

told you it wasn't that good, but i did answer your first question, so whats the follow up?

oh wait wait, almost forgot, if hes revelations or teachings were to bring peace to the people then that would also be another thing. Muhammed (saws) brought light to the pagan arabs who killed whom ever they wanted, and their women were slvaves.
 
Last edited:
Azakel

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
eselam said:
Azakel wants to read arabic but doesn't know how. doesn't even know what the arabic writting looks like.
Click to expand...

I kind of know what it looks like I just wanted to makes sure that I was right in calling it what it is and left it open just in cause I was wrong. And yes one day I wish to get around to maybe learning Arabic. ^_^
 
Gharib

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Azakel said:
I kind of know what it looks like I just wanted to makes sure that I was right in calling it what it is and left it open just in cause I was wrong. And yes one day I wish to get around to maybe learning Arabic. ^_^
Click to expand...

well go to that second link in my signature, "Maddinaharabic", thats where i learnt to read from.
 
F

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
YmirGF said:
Clearly, Fatihah, we have different ideas of what constitutes logic, rational thought, humilty and evidence. I think this is very instructive to anyone reading our interactions.

In light of this, I want to give you and all Muslims a differnt kind of test. Here is the test.

Suppose the Qur'an, as it is, did not exist. Suppose that Muhammad existed right now in our world and his so-called "revelations" began at this very moment. Do you think that many would actually believe his words or do you think that most people would consider him to be mentally unsound? If you can think of any other alternative perception, I'd love to hear it.
Click to expand...

Response: Quite possibly, someone will believe it. To be honest with you, I personally would not. In all actuality, I would be in the same position you are in and I would request for clear proof that the qur'an is in fact from Allah and that Muhammad is a true prophet. For Muhammad to simply say that he is would not be enough and I would definately not believe him or follow him.

So the question would be, what kind of evidence would prove his prophethood? A miracle of course! If I watched Muhammad perform something miraculously and achieve things that are not humanly possible, that would be clear evidence that he is indeed a prophet who is truly guided by a divine power and by you accepting the challenge, you yourself will be able to see the miracle of the qur'an which is explained in post # 290 of page 29 of thread but you refuse to do so and wish to stay in denial.
 
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