PROVE ME WRONG... All religions are fake.

[Apologes]

Oh gee what a constructive and thought-provoking way to initiate discourse

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Neither do I. Why would something completely alien and different to us require worship?


So your God is a supermagician type creator god. Not the only type, but one which antitheists and literalist theists from religions popular in much in the world like to debate based on their gut.


That's all nice, but completely specific some type of Christianity.


That's not what I was criticizing. It was making a claim without offering anything for debate and then asking others to refute it. A common deal on internet fora for sure, but not conducive to any discussion worth your time.

Yes my god is a creator. For me god is the creator of life, the universe and time, so if you want to call him a supermagician do so. I am afraid some religious people see him as an imaginary friend that you must love in order to get a happy and perfect afterlife and not burn in the fiery depths of hell. I do not know what is your definition of God so, what is it?

And yes that was an example to christianity, that is why I said "for example Jesus Christ", I cannot give examples about all the religions of the world, it would take me an eternity if it is even possible.

My debate is are all religions man-made? Or is one of them true?

 

[stvdv]

PROVE ME WRONG... All religions are fake

Interesting topic:

Hypothetically: God exists AND having all these Omnis AND able to incarnate as a human (in my answers below):

"I do not see any point why if there is a God he would come to our world and tell us to be good and love and worship him. When I think of God, I think of someone with great power, which can do anything that he want with a snap of a finger, since he created the universe."

If I were God or a parent, I would love my kids to be happy, not by me snapping my fingers, exactly like you said below (red). Worship leads to happiness for me.

In most religions, I see God coming in a form of a man, and struggling. If he wants us to know about him, I think that it could be easier than for example Jesus Christ, having to live 30 years as a man, do many good things to bad people, get tortured and killed, and then come back to life.

It is easier to relate to humans than to superhuman, so not too strange for me. Again fingersnapping God could do (having these omnis) but seems not His way so far

Another example of how I question religion is, imagine if you are a God, imagine you are playing sims, would you go and as a man and tell your people "Hey I am a good person and I love you all. Be good and love me". I do not think that if God is so great, that someone else overcome him to make a "Hell" for the bad people. For me religion seems like a strategy of controlling people. Tell your people to be good so that they can enjoy a perfect afterlife or if they are bad they will burn in fire. I can list many more things but I will take it a bit slow."

Going incognito (God as human; else not much of incognito) can be really fun. I like it, so why would God not like it or do it
Centuries ago people were quite barbarians (even called that way). So maybe this "Hell" idea was the way to get humans a little on track (now civilized, jail seems sufficient)
I do agree that Religion seems more of a human way to control other humans than of a divine way.

There are many saying "define fake", "it is not fake if it achieves its goal.". For me fake is not real. I am trying to mean that none of the religions existed in real life, they were made by men to control people, if that is how you want me to tell it.

It is very simple, for me flat earth theory is fake, round earth theory is real/true.​

According to that definition I think "all religions are fake/unreal". Not sure if all religions were made to control people. Some people genuinely want to help others.

I do not like the concept of a "true religion". Achieving truth by making people good and be happy. For me personally, I would not want to be a good man just because a religion is telling me to. I do not want to be scared of doing bad things just because I am scared to burn in hell. I do not want to be a good man just because I want to enjoy an eternal afterlife. I want to be a good man because I want to be a good man. And I would rather do it with reason and logic rather than religion.

Advaita takes it even one step further. Truth is that which does not change. So not only religion is unreal. You are unreal, mind/emotions are unreal (we all know how fast thoughts change)

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

PROVE ME WRONG... All religions are fake

Interesting topic:

Hypothetically: God exists AND having all these Omnis AND able to incarnate as a human (in my answers below):


If I were God or a parent, I would love my kids to be happy, not by me snapping my fingers, exactly like you said below (red). Worship leads to happiness for me.


It is easier to relate to humans than to superhuman, so not too strange for me. Again fingersnapping God could do (having these omnis) but seems not His way so far


Going incognito (God as human; else not much of incognito) can be really fun. I like it, so why would God not like it or do it
Centuries ago people were quite barbarians (even called that way). So maybe this "Hell" idea was the way to get humans a little on track (now civilized, jail seems sufficient)
I do agree that Religion seems more of a human way to control other humans than of a divine way.


According to that definition I think "all religions are fake/unreal". Not sure if all religions were made to control people. Some people genuinely want to help others.

Advaita takes it even one step further. Truth is that which does not change. So not only religion is unreal. You are unreal, mind/emotions are unreal (we all know how fast thoughts change)

Wait I am confused, where did I say we would be happy by god snapping his fingers? Anyway really don't understand what you mean by your first point.

So basically you are saying that God decided to play a game and going as a human for fun while also making his creation a bit more civilized. He clearly wants the best for our life. Why does not he stop all wars, stop all deceases like cancer, hiv, many others which kill so many innocent and young people who deserve to live a good life. Why does he not stop all the poverty and hunger there is in the world. Why does he not stop satan from making us bad people? (why does he not stop evil).

For me as I see it, there is a God, but he wants life to be hard. Just like a game, you need a challenge and there will be consequences in order to prevent it from being abused and exploited. If we work hard, we enjoy a better life. If we exploit life, (drugs,sex,war) there will be consequences. But if he wants us to live the best life (like in most religions), I think he could do a better job.

 

[Jim]

There are many replies and I am at work, if I missed anyone especially from earlier pages please let me know.

You missed my posts.

 

[Jim]

My debate is are all religions man-made? Or is one of them true?

I’ve read all your posts four times or more now, and I might be starting to understand what it’s all about for you. I will say now that there is one true religion: using religious lore and scriptures to help you learn to live a more fruitful and beneficial life. If you don’t already know that, I don’t think that there are any words that can convince you, but I can tell you some ways that you might be able to see for yourself if it’s true or not.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

I’ve read all your posts four times or more now, and I might be starting to understand what it’s all about for you. I will say now that there is one true religion: using religious lore and scriptures to help you learn to live a more fruitful and beneficial life. If you don’t already know that, I don’t think that there are any words that can convince you, but I can tell you some ways that you might be able to see for yourself if it’s true or not.

Why not live a more fruitful and beneficial life without religion? Why do you need religion? Is it because it makes you scared when you do a bad thing because then you think you will go to hell? Is it because it makes you want to do good things only for the purpose to having a perfect and eternal afterlife? Perhaps religion has been beneficial for interactions between local people throughout the years. But how many wars did religion cause? Uncountable probably. Why do you not want to live a fruitful and beneficial life just because you want to, just because you want to be a good person?

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

I responded to your original post before I read the rest of the thread. I'll take you at your word that you're open to learning something from people's responses to your challenge. I hope you'll be open to a response that is not in the same terms as your question. I would like to try to convince you to experiment with learning to follow Baha'u'llah. First I'll give you some background on my current views about religion and religions, which are always continually evolving. I think that learning to love, trust and follow Baha'u'llah is the best thing that can happen to anyone in our time, and what the world needs most of all, for human progress, and to right the wrongs and repair the damage. I think that was also true of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and a few others, for some time after their appearances. I don't think that the Baha'i Faith is true and others are false, but the Baha'i Faith might be less corrupted than the others because it has had less time to be corrupted.

I don't think that the word "God" in religious scriptures has any fixed meaning. I think that all references to "God" in the scriptures are analogies, and you can imagine anything you want to in the place of God, for the analogy to work, as long as you don't think that what you're imagining actually exists or is real. I think that whatever anyone, including you, imagines when they think of God, is not real, does not actually exist. When the scriptures say that God says or does this or that, what they actually mean is either something that some prophetic figures in religious lore say or do, or something that happens by what I'll call "divine assistance," powers and influences in us and in the world around us that help us improve ourselves and help improve the world for all people everywhere.

That's just some background about my way of thinking. What I want to try to convince you of, is to experiment with learning to follow Baha'u'llah.

Interesting, however for me God means the creator of life which is clearly different from what you think it means (correct me if I am wrong). I want to believe in a God that actually made me and made the universe. I do not want a God as an imaginary friend that will guide me through life.

 

[Jim]

Why not live a more fruitful and beneficial life without religion? Why do you need religion? Is it because it makes you scared when you do a bad thing because then you think you will go to hell? Is it because it makes you want to do good things only for the purpose to having a perfect and eternal afterlife? Perhaps religion has been beneficial for interactions between local people throughout the years. But how many wars did religion cause? Uncountable probably. Why do you not want to live a fruitful and beneficial life just because you want to, just because you want to be a good person?

First, I’ll revise my statement. The one true religion is using some lore and scriptures to help you live a more fruitful and beneficial life. There might be some religious lore and scriptures that aren’t good for that purpose, and there might be some non-religious lore and scriptures that are.

I have some ideas about how you might be able to see for yourself if that’s true or not. Let me know if you’re interested.

 

[stvdv]

Wait I am confused, where did I say we would be happy by god snapping his fingers? Anyway really don't understand what you mean by your first point.

So basically you are saying that God decided to play a game and going as a human for fun while also making his creation a bit more civilized. He clearly wants the best for our life. Why does not he stop all wars, stop all deceases like cancer, hiv, many others which kill so many innocent and young people who deserve to live a good life. Why does he not stop all the poverty and hunger there is in the world. Why does he not stop satan from making us bad people? (why does he not stop evil).

For me as I see it, there is a God, but he wants life to be hard. Just like a game, you need a challenge and there will be consequences in order to prevent it from being abused and exploited. If we work hard, we enjoy a better life. If we exploit life, (drugs,sex,war) there will be consequences. But if he wants us to live the best life (like in most religions), I think he could do a better job.

You introduced "God and finger snapping". Maybe you meant something else with it.

I did not say "God decided this or that". You stated "I do not see any point why if there is a God he would ...worship him". And I just said that for me "I can see a point in it"

But obviously you would like God to fingersnap, reading your reply [God solving all the troubles that the humans create themselves]

I see it completely different. God is Loving, and want us to have a nice and easy live. Humans are arrogant and obnoxious and create all the trouble themselves and blaming God for it

If God exists and having the omni's then God did a perfect job. Human need to get rid of some arrogance and then they will see it easily IMO

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

You introduced "God and finger snapping". Maybe you meant something else with it.

I did not say "God decided this or that". You stated "I do not see any point why if there is a God he would ...worship him". And I just said that for me "I can see a point in it"

But obviously you would like God to fingersnap, reading your reply [God solving all the troubles that the humans create themselves]

I see it completely different. God is Loving, and want us to have a nice and easy live. Humans are arrogant and obnoxious and create all the trouble themselves and blaming God for it

If God exists and having the omni's then God did a perfect job. Human need to get rid of some arrogance and then they will see it easily IMO

Answer this question then. If he is so loving why did he create hell (from a christian point of view and few others). Why did he create all those deceases and why did he create the arrogant human? Why didnt he make him nice?

 

[ChristineM]

I believe that no religion is real, I want people to convince me wrong. I did not mean to say that you all believe in something that is not true. Everyone believe what they want, the only thing I do not support is parents making you believe what they want, meaning your faith is basically determined where you are born, as what I believe happens to 99% of the humans in the world.

Your op mentioned true, not real and true is what i replied to

My religious faith or lack of it, i am atheist of some repute was most certainly not inherited from my parents, they are both christian.

But you are part correct, both demographics and upbringing generally determine a childs faith unless in a few cases, either the child is exceptionally bright and is able to think for themselves or the parents encourage free thinking in the child.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Answer this question then. If he is so loving why did he create hell (from a christian point of view and few others). Why did he create all those deceases and why did he create the arrogant human? Why didnt he make him nice?

Hello. In my humble opinion, you are putting one interpretation of scripture out there as the definitive "correct" one. The common conception of hell for example. As for disease and suffering, many Christians have dealt with this through process theology and theistic evolution (there is a current thread on this).

Peace

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Your op mentioned true, not real and true is what i replied to

My religious faith or lack of it, i am atheist of some repute was most certainly not inherited from my parents, they are both christian.

But you are part correct, both demographics and upbringing generally determine a childs faith unless in a few cases, either the child is exceptionally bright and is able to think for themselves or the parents encourage free thinking in the child.

Which is very rare, I knew someone who was beaten by his parents in his teens for not wanting to go to church, and I know other teenagers who have been kicked out of their house for wanting to chose their own religion. It is so sad but no one cares.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Which is very rare, I knew someone who was beaten by his parents in his teens for not wanting to go to church, and I know other teenagers who have been kicked out of their house for wanting to chose their own religion. It is so sad but no one cares.

Hello.
Inferring that something is a rare occurrence from a small, biased sample of size n = 1 is not meaningful.

Peace

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Hello.
Inferring that something is a rare occurrence from a small, biased sample of size n = 1 is not meaningful.

Peace

I think it is obvious that an extremely high percentage of people continue to practice the religion that their parents taught them without even considering anything else.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Again . . . all this speculative interpretation of bad dreams visions, mirages, eating funky mushrooms, hallucinations, and like many people today that have a very creative imagination. Please provide on objectively verifiable evidence for aliens or a UFO.

Well, UFO sightings are becoming more and more regular. In 2017 and 2018 there were clouds shaped just like UFOs. Google "Cloud UFO Moscow" and "Cloud UFO Sweden".

But you'll have to read "Intelligent Design: Message from the Designers by Rael" yourself. It is free and anonymous to download from www.rael.org .

 

[Regiomontanus]

I think it is obvious that an extremely high percentage of people continue to practice the religion that their parents taught them without even considering anything else.

Hello. Yes, family has a big influence. But 'extremely rare'? Surely there are some studies out there than can nail this down a bit more. And while someone brought up in a household of religion x may gravitate to that faith later, how they interpret it often deviates significantly. For example, being brought up in a more liberal version of a faith becoming much more conservative (and vise versa).

In my humble opinion most (say monotheistic) religions point to the same thing: the creator God. Most everything else is culturally and subjectively determined.

Peace

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Hello. Yes, family has a big influence. But 'extremely rare'? Surely there are some studies out there than can nail this down a bit more. And while someone brought up in a household of religion x may gravitate to that faith later, how they interpret it often deviates significantly. For example, being brought up in a more liberal version of a faith becoming much more conservative (and vise versa).

In my humble opinion most (say monotheistic) religions point to the same thing: the creator God. Most everything else is culturally and subjectively determined.

Peace

Here is a study that I made in 10 seconds. Morocco percentage population which is muslim 1990= 99.0%.... Morocco percentage population which is muslim 2010= 99.9%. Very little change there isnt it. Actually it seems more of the population has adapted to the culture of the country. It's not just islam or morocco though.
Here Table: Muslim Population by Country
You can see every country there. Most of the changes is by migration and nothing else

 

[stvdv]

Answer this question then.
1: If he is so loving why did he create hell (from a christian point of view and few others).
2: Why did he create all those deceases and why did he create the arrogant human?
3: Why didnt he make him nice?

1: I am not a Christian and I do not believe in Hell, so that problem I have already solved.
2: All people one day will be deceased (dead), that's just how it is on earth. The baby is not born arrogant.
2: So a better question is "why do parents create arrogant children ... and how do they create this arrogance ... do I want to stay arrogant? ... how to undo it"
3: Babies are born nice, so again "why parents mess up big time ... etc. ... how to undo this"

I take full responsibility, so I do not blame God. And here on RF we did not even manage to create a definition of God all agree on. So totally useless to say "God is to blame". Some even say God does not exist, so why blaming such a God, who may not even exist, except in our imagination

But I do agree that life is quite absurd. Born as a perfect baby (in general), the parents, teachers, spouses mess you up completely. And then you can work all life long to fix it.