Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Kerr]

so now just cos 2 men can't have a child. lets make women breeding machines for every gay out there. listen to your self man, listen to your own logic. think a bit deeper about hings. don't just scratch the surface.

You make it sound like anyone is being forced. They aren´t. And I was not speaking just about males, lesbians where included in that statement. Fact is, I know of cases where lesbians and gay men have decided to have children, no force involved. No one is going to be a breeding machine more then they already are.

 

[Bismillah]

Not really. Sexuality is very different from person to person. I, for example, am a hetrosexual, but I would lie if I said I had not wondered how it is to be homosexual. Which is why I say it is a spectrum, there are those on the edges who are more exclusive then others and there are those "closer to the middle". It is an individual matter.

Yes, but wondering about homosexuality and feeling urges for men is quite different. I think it's only natural that you wonder about homosexuals, I have as well, only because to me and you they are different. Then it would only follow we would be interested and wonder why some people are different then we are. They represent an "alien" preference that we cannot understand. Likewise homosexuals most likely think of our sexual preferences as "alien".

Inheritense is actually quite tricky. Very tricky. Even if it is only one gene, you can mostly count probability and even then you must know the nature of the gene in question (if it is dominant or not). Now that is if it is only one gene. If it is a combination of genes it becomes even more complicated. So this does not mean there is not a genetic factor, it means it is a very complicated equation.

But who is to say that this gene even exists? If understanding the human genome is evolving at such a rapid pace and a gay gene hasn't been found and instances when twins share the same genetics yet differ in sexual preferences, doesn't this indicate something influenced by the environment?

I am arguing genes are one factor. But from what I have seen and experienced I know they do not dictate who we are, and do not say where we end up.

If Genes do not dictate who we are and who we end up, then they cannot be used to explain sexual preferences right? Just as a man can prefer brunettes to blonds without influence from his genetic code, can't a man prefer women to men without influence from his genetic code.

Ok, I confess I just tricked you into confessing that, so I can feel superior, because I know and understand everything .

Kidding, lol.

Ah, but you see I saw this coming. But realized your petty sense of morality would make you claim to "kid". Now it is only me who can say "I know what I am talking about"

 

[Venatoris]

so now just cos 2 men can't have a child. lets make women breeding machines for every gay out there. listen to your self man, listen to your own logic. think a bit deeper about hings. don't just scratch the surface.

Think this through. A lesbian couple and a gay male couple can have two kids at once. Where do you get breeding machines from? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

 

[Kerr]

i never said we are over or under populated. i'm saying you have no outhroity to say if it is or not. i certainly haven't given you my vote.

Nor did I claim to have the authority, as you may have noticed I am not very concerned with authority at all. But seriously, we cannot grow forever. Homosexuality may just as well be a mechanism to help with that issue.

 

[Bismillah]

Unlike religious groups, gays have never tried to exterminate an entire group of people in all of recorded history. Gays don't preach the downfall of heterosexuality. Gays as a whole have never done anything to you personally(if they have, please say so and i will retract this statement).

As a guess, perhaps this is due to the fact that Gays have rarely if ever been a majority. Akin to "Tyranny of the Majority" if we placed a bunch of Gays on an Island outnumbering a group of clerics 30:1 what would happen :S

 

[Venatoris]

As a guess, perhaps this is due to the fact that Gays have rarely if ever been a majority. Akin to "Tyranny of the Majority" if we placed a bunch of Gays on an Island outnumbering a group of clerics 30:1 what would happen :S

LOL, nothing if they kept their mouths shut.

 

[Bismillah]

LOL, nothing if they kept their mouths shut.

Hmm...perhaps. I have seen a couple homosexual women I wouldn't want to look the wrong way.

ooh I just saw the Oscar WIlde quote - I found the book's message very compelling, though it leads me to try and imitate British accents and frequent use of the word "icelollies" .

 

[Kerr]

Yes, but wondering about homosexuality and feeling urges for men is quite different. I think it's only natural that you wonder about homosexuals, I have as well, only because to me and you they are different. Then it would only follow we would be interested and wonder why some people are different then we are. They represent an "alien" preference that we cannot understand. Likewise homosexuals most likely think of our sexual preferences as "alien".

My "wondering" was a bit stronger then yours, I might add.

But who is to say that this gene even exists? If understanding the human genome is evolving at such a rapid pace and a gay gene hasn't been found and instances when twins share the same genetics yet differ in sexual preferences, doesn't this indicate something influenced by the environment?

It can be an interaction between genes as well, do not have to be one gene at all. It can indicate it, but it would not take away the genetic factor.

If Genes do not dictate who we are and who we end up, then they cannot be used to explain sexual preferences right? Just as a man can prefer brunettes to blonds without influence from his genetic code, can't a man prefer women to men without influence from his genetic code.

One, it depends on the genes in question and is not a matter of the genes being irrelevant as much as being a matter of interaction. Two, I said have to for a reason. I do not know the nature of the genetic factor, it just appear there may exist one. And no, it does not have to be a gay gene, genetics is far more complex then that. It can be an interaction between genes as well.

Ah, but you see I saw this coming. But realized your petty sense of morality would make you claim to "kid". Now it is only me who can say "I know what I am talking about"

Yeah... well... so is your face !

 

[Commoner]

As a guess, perhaps this is due to the fact that Gays have rarely if ever been a majority. Akin to "Tyranny of the Majority" if we placed a bunch of Gays on an Island outnumbering a group of clerics 30:1 what would happen :S

We'd have 30 child molestors and one gay guy on an island? )(

Have I gone too far?!

 

[Kerr]

As a guess, perhaps this is due to the fact that Gays have rarely if ever been a majority. Akin to "Tyranny of the Majority" if we placed a bunch of Gays on an Island outnumbering a group of clerics 30:1 what would happen :S

Or maybe it is because gays are hardly a social or cultural group... it is a sexual preference... maybe...

 

[Kerr]

We'd have 30 child molestors and one gay guy on an island? )(

Have I gone too far?!

Omg ! Poor child molestors having to spend time with a gay!

 

[Gharib]

Nor does what you wrote. It boils down to values here, not evidence.

so now lets leave evidence and reality out and lets put in (putin )oppinion and fantasy.

 

[Commoner]

so now lets leave evidence and reality out and lets put in (putin )oppinion and fantasy.

Why are you complaining, that's been your game all along.

 

[Gharib]

Think this through. A lesbian couple and a gay male couple can have two kids at once. Where do you get breeding machines from? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

told you so. see your very statement proves that they are a corruption in a society. why be with a male when instead you can be with a female and forget about the whole thing.

they are making life much more complicated. i don't know how sick one has to be to love the opposite sex.

let me ask you something, if it was 'natural' for some people to love animals and have sex with them would you give them the go ahead and make it a legal thing in society? it's the same as homosexuality.

 

[Kerr]

so now lets leave evidence and reality out and lets put in (putin )oppinion and fantasy.

Yeah... Q just came by and said being gay is alright, so... I am right...

(Star Trek reference above .)

Seriously, though, there is no harm being done by homosexuality itself. It does not inflict damage on the individual, fact is many gay people are happier after they come out. Sure, some people may feel uncomfortable, but that is not the responsibility of the homosexuals. So I cannot say it is immoral or moral, it is just amoral.

 

[Gharib]

Why are you complaining, that's been your game all along.

show me where.

 

[Bismillah]

My "wondering" was a bit stronger then yours, I might add.

Anything short of having sex with another man still places you firmly as heterosexual.

It can be an interaction between genes as well, do not have to be one gene at all. It can indicate it, but it would not take away the genetic factor.

Yes, but then why is it that those who share similar genetic structures are identical structures with homosexuals don't show a greater chance of being homosexual? Shouldn't those with an identical match up be the ideal scenario? To demonstrate that a "Gay DNA" exists?

One, it depends on the genes in question and is not a matter of the genes being irrelevant as much as being a matter of interaction. Two, I said have to for a reason. I do not know the nature of the genetic factor, it just appear there may exist one. And no, it does not have to be a gay gene, genetics is far more complex then that. It can be an interaction between genes as well.

There may be a genetic reason for Gay people. But, as of now science suggests the opposite? If so, then until Science says otherwise shouldn't people assume that homosexuality isn't genetic?

Yeah... well... so is your face!

Predictable

 

[Commoner]

show me where.

You can't substantiate the claims you're making. That homosexuality is a choice, a disease, that it's "wrong" and disgusting - those are your oppinions, nothing more.

 

[Bismillah]

Or maybe it is because gays are hardly a social or cultural group... it is a sexual preference... maybe...

The Gay community sure can unite like one though...

 

[Kerr]

Anything short of having sex with another man still places you firmly as heterosexual.

And my point is that you can be stronger or weaker in that place. I have not had sex with another man, no, but I am more homosexual then, say, someone who has never had those thoughts.