Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Kerr]

Yes, but then why is it that those who share similar genetic structures are identical structures with homosexuals don't show a greater chance of being homosexual? Shouldn't those with an identical match up be the ideal scenario? To demonstrate that a "Gay DNA" exists?

You know an article you posted told that there was a higher change that both are gay when it comes to people with identical genetic structure then when it comes to other "groups" .

 

[Kerr]

There may be a genetic reason for Gay people. But, as of now science suggests the opposite? If so, then until Science says otherwise shouldn't people assume that homosexuality isn't genetic?

If science prove me wrong I am wrong. Does not matter to the morality of homosexuality anyway.

And according to your logic, you must not assume the opposite either .

 

[Kerr]

Predictable

Talk to the... FACE!

Crap, meant hand!

 

[Commoner]

There may be a genetic reason for Gay people. But, as of now science suggests the opposite? If so, then until Science says otherwise shouldn't people assume that homosexuality isn't genetic?

Well, science has certainly been of an oppinion that it's not a choice for a looong time.

"Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture." Statement on Homosexuality, American Psychological Association, 1994-JUL.

Nobody is really "straight" or really "gay", we simply have different affinities. Some of us have a strong affinity for women, some a strong affinity for men, some like both. It's not black and white at all. You might be a completely straight man, but like women with a stronger cheekbone. Or you mght like women with more soft features.

 

[Gharib]

Well, science has certainly been of an oppinion that it's not a choice for a looong time.

i can prove homosexuality is a choice.

have i told you i know homosexuals (the cause of it) just like a mechanic knows a car (the cause of a fault)

 

[Venatoris]

told you so. see your very statement proves that they are a corruption in a society. why be with a male when instead you can be with a female and forget about the whole thing.

they are making life much more complicated. i don't know how sick one has to be to love the opposite sex.

let me ask you something, if it was 'natural' for some people to love animals and have sex with them would you give them the go ahead and make it a legal thing in society? it's the same as homosexuality.

Compromise is not corruption. Two gay couples can go for artificial insemination, I'm not saying they would have sex with each other. Why be with a male? because it makes me happy!

sick to love the opposite sex? Isn't that the opposite of your argument? Either way, it's not your business or mine.

Again, you make a giant leap with the beastiality thing. It's not the same at all. Gay people get emotional gratification from their partners not just sexual.

I have a question for you. Is everything you do in your life motivated by your heterosexual impulses? Is sex with women all you want from life? If it is that's kinda sad. If not, why would you think that about gays?

 

[Commoner]

i can prove homosexuality is a choice.

have i told you i know homosexuals (the cause of it) just like a mechanic knows a car (the cause of a fault)

You have yet to do so.

Here, since you'd like to be a mechanic of the human mind, take a look at this and tell me we're not predisposed for our sexuality:

Gay men and heterosexual women have similarly shaped brains, research shows | Science | The Guardian

 

[Venatoris]

i can prove homosexuality is a choice.

have i told you i know homosexuals (the cause of it) just like a mechanic knows a car (the cause of a fault)

So... you spent your childhood underneath the hood of various gay men? Taking them for a test drive? Swapping out the fluids? Turning them on and off? Did you take a class on homosexual mechanics?

 

[Commoner]

sick to love the opposite sex? Isn't that the opposite of your argument? Either way, it's not your business or mine.

Man, Freud could have had a lot of fun studying you, Esalam. First the "gaydar" incident, now this.

 

[Bismillah]

You know an article you posted told that there was a higher change that both are gay when it comes to people with identical genetic structure then when it comes to other "groups"

But, why a higher chance? They share the exact same genetic code. They should both be homosexual. The only thing that can differ then is environmental stimulus.

Well, science has certainly been of an oppinion that it's not a choice for a looong time.

I'm not trying to argue that it is by choice. Per se I don't believe a person thinks "Let's be homosexual today!" I think it may be caused by external stimulus and environmental upbringing. For example, convicts in Prison enter heterosexual become homosexual for a time and then become heterosexual again. I think this is due to the restriction of sexual longing and the only outlet is well...your cell mate.

You are homosexual or you are heterosexual. If a person prefers masculine women that doesn't mean that he likes men. That is absurd.

Bisexuals don't have a "problem". They can choose which sex to be with, rather I think it is sexual gratification that causes them to not have a preference over one sex.

If science prove me wrong I am wrong. Does not matter to the morality of homosexuality anyway.

And according to your logic, you must not assume the opposite either

But then it would mean the homosexuality is something close to choice or perhaps a reaction. A whole new can of worms. Wait I can't assume the opposite? I can't assume that homosexuals suffer from a genetic problem? Does this mean I win?

Talk to the... FACE!

Hmm perhaps the hand is a genetic mutation of another face? I suspect genetics! :science:


oops the response is jumbled up. Oh well, I won't bother now I have to sleep D:

 

[Gharib]

Compromise is not corruption. Two gay couples can go for artificial insemination, I'm not saying they would have sex with each other.

sorry i don't understand this, can you explain it more?

Why be with a male? because it makes me happy!

are you gay? if so are you willing to be an opponet of mine in proving that homosexuality is a choice? i can prove it to man. just say so.

sick to love the opposite sex? Isn't that the opposite of your argument? Either way, it's not your business or mine.

ooopsy, i meant to say the same sex.

Again, you make a giant leap with the beastiality thing. It's not the same at all. Gay people get emotional gratification from their partners not just sexual.

well i know for a fact that a dog is a very good companion to a human. i never said it's only about sex. no one has anything against people and dogs kissing or licking each other, why would you have a problem if for someone it was 'natural' to want to have sex with a dog even though they have a communication barrier?

I have a question for you. Is everything you do in your life motivated by your heterosexual impulses?

nope, i don't know whether i can say rarely or sometimes. don't know what you really mean.

Is sex with women all you want from life? If it is that's kinda sad. If not, why would you think that about gays?

no thats not want i want out of life.

i never said that being gay is only about having sex with the same sex.

 

[Gharib]

Man, Freud could have had a lot of fun studying you, Esalam. First the "gaydar" incident, now this.

typo man.

but i can prove who is gay who is straight. and i can prove homosexuality to be a choice.

 

[Commoner]

typo man.

but i can prove who is gay who is straight. and i can prove homosexuality to be a choice.

Come on, prove it already!!!

Oh, and have you read my link?

 

[darkendless]

typo man.

but i can prove who is gay who is straight. and i can prove homosexuality to be a choice.

Why would gay people choose to be insulted, mistreated and slandered by pathetic theists who think their little book of fairytales justifies hatred? I'm sorry but scripture warrents all the hatred in the world when it suggests that people are evil because of what they choose to do in private.

You can't prove that being Gay is a choice because people much more learned than you still cannot, much the opposite in fact.

 

[Gharib]

Come on, prove it already!!!

Oh, and have you read my link?

read it or look at it?

look if you guys don't believe me then fine. no problem with me.

 

[Gharib]

Why would gay people choose to be insulted, mistreated and slandered by pathetic theists who think their little book of fairytales justifies hatred? I'm sorry but scripture warrents all the hatred in the world when it suggests that people are evil because of what they choose to do in private.

You can't prove that being Gay is a choice because people much more learned than you still cannot, much the opposite in fact.

you can say what ever you want it doesn't mean anything. if you don't believe me when i say it is a choice then don't worry about it.

 

[Commoner]

read it or look at it?

look if you guys don't believe me then fine. no problem with me.

Believe what?

(look at it)

 

[Kerr]

But, why a higher chance? They share the exact same genetic code. They should both be homosexual. The only thing that can differ then is environmental stimulus.

You assume it is one or the other.

But then it would mean the homosexuality is something close to choice or perhaps a reaction. A whole new can of worms.

We have yet to see an evidence that it is a choice... To be honest, though, I do not understand what you mean. Why is it that different? Why would it being a choice change anything about the morality of homosexuality?

Wait I can't assume the opposite? I can't assume that homosexuals suffer from a genetic problem? Does this mean I win?

Nope, I was just saying don´t tell me not to assume anything when you are guilty of that yourself . We both assume something.

 

[darkendless]

you can say what ever you want it doesn't mean anything. if you don't believe me when i say it is a choice then don't worry about it.

I don't believe you because you have not said anything in this thread to suggest that it is. Your speculation is not grounds for acceptance.

Please tell me why you think people choose to be gay and i will consider it.

My reasons for people not choosing to be gay include:
- social exclusion, gay people often find it hard to make friends outside the gay community.
- family exclusion, families of Gay people often exclude them for being gay and bringing "disgrace upon the family."
- Being gay is still socially unacceptable in a religious bigot filled society.
- Gay people are not accepted by religious institutions no matter what they believe.
- Gay kids growing up are subject to rediculous bullying, i've seen it with my own eyes.

Now why the hell would anyone choose to deal with this rubbish?

 

[Kerr]

The Gay community sure can unite like one though...

They are not that kind of "group" by definition... if some of them choose to unite into one, then they have chosen to create one, but it still does not make all homosexuals part of that group.