Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Kerr]

Becaue those people are mistaken. Sexual urges are natural, no matter toward whom, period. End of story.

Yeah. Sexual urges are natural, however that something is natural does not make it right or wrong. For a pedophile his urges are natural, but in that case it is wrong to act on them because, among other things, of the misery it causes for the victim. Homosexuality, on the other hand, hurts no one. Literally. And it is the option that is best for the homosexual. Therefor homosexuality is amoral.

 

[MSizer]

so when did it become illegal for a dog and his master to do what ever they want in their own bedroom? and since when is it considered rape to have sex with an animal?

Look, I don't know whether sex with animals is illegal or not, but the bottom line is that we don't really know that a dog has the capacity to make educated decisions on it's overall wellbieng when it comes to sexual participation. If we had a way of knowing that a dog could consent as is capable enough of mind to provide consent, then hey, what business is it of mine if some dog and his human companion can get it on.

 

[YmirGF]

Ok, Eselam. I will be your guinea pig. Do you really think you are up to my accepting your challenge? Now, be honest, lol. I am a gay male.

*gives Eselam the famous "come hither" look*

If you think you are capable, come and get some, big fellah. I promise I will be delicate with you.
The thing is, if I dispute your thinking, will you accept it as evidence that your thinking is quite wrong?

I should also point out that I am leaving in 10 minutes... but will be back in early afternoon. That will give you time to post up your thoughts on the subject.

 

[Commoner]

so when did it become illegal for a dog and his master to do what ever they want in their own bedroom? and since when is it considered rape to have sex with an animal?

In most countries it is illegal - It's considered animal abuse.

so homosexuality is illegal then?

Two consenting adults. Why would it be illegal?

 

[Gharib]

Lol.... if that is true it means you chose to be attracted to females, so God could have started you out gay i kid i kid

You didn't respond to my points though. I'm interested as to why you think homosexuals would choose to be so hated.

but thats the thing, they think it's 'natural' and there is no cure for it. so they keep going. and why do you expect them to just give it up simply because homosexuals are hated?

the first muslims were killed for accepting islam and they still didn't refrain from the islamic teachings, it was their choice to believe in what they did.

same thing here.

 

[Gharib]

Of course not, but I'm no claiming it's a choice.

yeah exactly you can't. you have not been influenced by your childhood environment to think that you are a female.

i have never heard of anyone at an age of 18 + to suddenly choose to be homosexual.

they all say, it is natural, from childhood.

 

[YmirGF]

You who... Eselam.... please refer to post #1003. This is your lucky day!

 

[YmirGF]

I'm leaving in five minutes.... c'mon... hit me with your best shot... pwetty pwease!

 

[Fatihah]

My comment was simply a statement of fact, Fatihah. It is absolutely correct to say that Eselam, yourself and other Muslims hold to different root assumptions about reality than non-Muslims do. Eselam, yourself and other Muslims ARE the proof of what I am talking about.

In this particular case, you are shown videos of something you do not BELIEVE actually exists. It is because you do not BELIEVE that homosexuality exists in the animals kingdom that you cannot see the fairly obvious evidence presented. You could say the same thing about non-Muslims who are presented with passages from the Qur'an. We do not see what you do, as a rule, because we do not believe in the same root assumptions. This is what I am saying.

Please understand that I am trying to shed light on what is really going on here as opposed to taking sides in a frivolous discussion about behaviors that are considered to be common in the animal world. In all fairness, so far, the only people I have ever heard question this accepted opinion are Muslims who, as a group, are not noted for any current scientific investigation in animal behavior.

Response: To the contrary, when the alleged evidence presented is clearly illogical, it's not a belief, it's a fact. So what you are seeing is not an assumption of the muslim part at all, for even a non-muslim can see that the videos and photos show absolutely no evidence. To say otherwise is once again another act of denial.

 

[Venatoris]

but this violates the rights of children. just cos we have the power to have them it doesn't mean an unborn child has no rights. where are the rights of a child in this case?

Please explain how you think the rights of the children are being infringed upon.

oh yeah my bad. and just so everyone knows i will refrain from saying things that may be offencive to anyone who is or isn't homosexual.

Then you must refrain from calling homosexuality a disease. I'm offended and I'm sure many others are as well.

well in the videos presented before, i never saw a male dog give concent to another male dog to have sex with him. it doesn't matter about concent, you can't deny someone right to have sex with an animal if they found it 'natural' to do so.

how do you know the dogs gave no consent? you don't speak their language.

many one such example being my first statement on this very post. misstreatment of childrens rights.

How does having loving parents(of the same gender) infringe on a childs rights?

no much more. i can't become gay, they can become straight. many more.

So you don't have a choice when it comes to your sexual orientation? I'll just let you ponder that until you realize that you disproved your own point.

kind of yeah, seeing that thats their difference from me.

You missed the point entirely. you don't judge the quality of a person by what they like to eat or how they choose to dress, do you? why do you focus on one of the least significant aspects of a whole person and condemn them for it, all the while, maintaining this smug sense of superiority.

doesn't hurt me at all if you could prove that we are at wrong. and are a bad influence.

I didn't ask you how you would feel. I asked you if it would be fair to judge them. the answer, by the way, is no. furthermore you can't prove that homosexuals are wrong to live the way they do. Do you even see the correlation?

 

[YmirGF]

It appears that Eselam has me on ignore. Can somebody capture post 1003 and make it big and bold to get his attention.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: To the contrary, when the alleged evidence presented is clearly illogical, it's not a belief, it's a fact. So what you are seeing is not an assumption of the muslim part at all, for even a non-muslim can see that the videos and photos show absolutely no evidence. To say otherwise is once again another act of denial.

You're not very good at this, are you?

 

[Commoner]

Ok, Eselam. I will be your guinea pig. Do you really think you are up to my accepting your challenge? Now, be honest, lol. I am a gay male.

*gives Eselam the famous "come hither" look*

If you think you are capable, come and get some, big fellah. I promise I will be delicate with you.
The thing is, if I dispute your thinking, will you accept it as evidence that your thinking is quite wrong?

I should also point out that I am leaving in 10 minutes... but will be back in early afternoon. That will give you time to post up your thoughts on the subject.

*Bump*

 

[Gharib]

Look, I don't know whether sex with animals is illegal or not, but the bottom line is that we don't really know that a dog has the capacity to make educated decisions on it's overall wellbieng when it comes to sexual participation. If we had a way of knowing that a dog could consent as is capable enough of mind to provide consent, then hey, what business is it of mine if some dog and his human companion can get it on.

new it, you too are against human-animal sex unless there is consent from the animal. why did you pretend you were OK with it?

 

[Kerr]

but this violates the rights of children. just cos we have the power to have them it doesn't mean an unborn child has no rights. where are the rights of a child in this case?

A child has the right to parents, the sex of those parents are irrelevant.

no much more. i can't become gay, they can become straight. many more.

If it is a choice, you can become gay if you "choose" to.

kind of yeah, seeing that thats their difference from me.

Even if that where true, it wouldn´t matter for the morality of it.

 

[Commoner]

You're not very good at this, are you?

He always reminds me of Monty Python: YouTube - Argument Clinic

 

[Fatihah]

I have to agree here. Its widely known that animals engage in Homosexual behaviour but people whos religious affiliations cannot except that, will ignore the evidence or try to argue against it. Why?

Its not the arguing about homosexual behavior thats interesting here but the unwillingness to accept anything that could be construed as undermining faith. Does whether animals participate in homosexual behaviour effect Islam in any way ? is it is the mentioned in the Quran or Sunnah ? all i know is that its in nature so we make of it what we will.


further info:

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.



Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate


Homosexual behaviour is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, according to a new study.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...spread-in-animals-according-to-new-study.html


More on our friends Roy and Silo

Bisexual Species: Unorthodox Sex in the Animal Kingdom: Scientific American




Why would the fact that animals participate in Homosexual behaviour be harmful to Islam in any way? Why the need to deny this?

Response: To the contrary, it's a widely known hoax. This thread alone proves this. One can simply look at the alleged evidence and even your links above to see this. Why the need to deny this?

 

[Fatihah]

You're not very good at this, are you?

Response: Post 416 of page 42 tells a different story.

 

[Gharib]

Response: To the contrary, it's a widely known hoax. This thread alone proves this. One can simply look at the alleged evidence and even your links above to see this. Why the need to deny this?

hey bro, it's funny how they refrained from posting such videos that had plenty of 'evidence'

 

[Fatihah]

He always reminds me of Monty Python: YouTube - Argument Clinic

Response: Likewise.