Proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist

[Bismillah]

So it's a bit like slapping your wife to prove to a friend that she wouldn't leave you? If she doesn't, you reward her, if she does, you torture and kill her.

It is not to prove to a friend. It is to prove not only to Shaitaan that Humanity will act in accordance with Allah, but to prove it to Humanity itself. A person can be born with great obstacles yes. But with those obstacles there is always room for optimism and faith. Faith that Allah will reward you struggles infinitely beyond comprehension. Yes, the person can choose to turn away from Allah, that would be his choice. But, you hint that Allah would punish them for it. Do you know what Allah is thinking, how he ascribes punishment? Allah does not deal in absolutes he looks at every person individually and knows all, it is a case by case basis. Will Allah punish the person for turning away? Perhaps, perhaps not, what one does know is that the best way to evoke the sympathy of Allah is to act in accordance with the life of a Muslim.

 

[Gharib]

What does the koran say?

doesn't specifically mentione temporary marriage.

 

[Bismillah]

What does the koran say?

Temporary Marriage in Islamic Law Educate yourself

 

[Gharib]

Which part of the example do you feel does not accurately describe god testing someone?

all of it.

 

[Commoner]

It is not to prove to a friend. It is to prove not only to Shaitaan that Humanity will act in accordance with Allah, but to prove it to Humanity itself. A person can be born with great obstacles yes. But with those obstacles there is always room for optimism and faith. Faith that Allah will reward you struggles infinitely beyond comprehension. Yes, the person can choose to turn away from Allah, that would be his choice. But, you hint that Allah would punish them for it. Do you know what Allah is thinking, how he ascribes punishment? Allah does not deal in absolutes he looks at every person individually and knows all, it is a case by case basis. Will Allah punish the person for turning away? Perhaps, perhaps not, what one does know is that the best way to evoke the sympathy of Allah is to act in accordance with the life of a Muslim.

So..let me rephrase to include the new information.

It's like slapping your wife to prove to your friend - and herself (and maybe even her friends), that she wouldn't leave you. If she does, you might punish her or you might not. If she doesn't, you reward her.

And, of course, you love your wife. And then you slap her again.

***?!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I have seen this video before: YouTube - How to prove Scientifically to an atheist -Existence of God

There are numerous responses: YouTube - Dawah to an atheist? "Dr." Zakir Naik gets powned!

Yes...This is what I said earlier....I found the start of the thread to be dishonest because people like the late Ahmed Deedat and Zakir (a late comer parroting Deedat) said the same thing......an yet the OP has not "proven" Allah....


The thing is...I don't even want him to try because it is an exercise in futility...causing circular logic and circular reasoning. If he and others can't even accept the sheer fact that animals engage in homosexual behavior (which we shown by video as well as documentation)....then what's the point of them trying to convince anybody of their god...?


Quran 21:18
No, but We hurl the truth against falsehood and it prevails over it, and behold, falsehood vanishes away. Then woe to you for that you describe!

 

[Commoner]

all of it.

Great answer! Or is it that you don't really know what to say?

 

[Bismillah]

It's like slapping your wife to prove to your friend - and herself (and maybe even her friends), that she wouldn't leave you. If she does, you might punish her or you might not. If she doesn't, you reward her.

And, of course, you love your wife. And then you slap her again.

Yet, I still see a problem. A wife and a husband are equals one isn't dominant over the other. Allah and his relationship is not like this at all. A wife is not the servant of her Husband :yes:

 

[Commoner]

Yet, I still see a problem. A wife and a husband are equals one isn't dominant over the other. Allah and his relationship is not like this at all. A wife is the servant of her Husband :yes:

Aha, and that makes it ok?

Slapping your children? Slapping your slaves...ugh, I mean - servants?

Are you kidding me? Is this really something you believe?

 

[Gharib]

Great answer! Or is it that you don't really know what to say?

do you want me to explain the proper way things work?

 

[Bismillah]

What? That Allah is not Man's equal? Of course I believe that. He is the one that endowed me my thought process, something Atheists seem to treasure He has elevated us above all his other creations and for that we are held responsible. He is merciful and forgives our many sins and then rewards us beyond comprehension. For that I am grateful.

 

[Commoner]

do you want me to explain the proper way things work?

You needn't even ask. Of course! Give it your best shot!

 

[Commoner]

What? That Allah is not Man's equal? Of course I believe that. He is the one that endowed me my thought process, something Atheists seem to treasure He has elevated us above all his other creations and for that we are held responsible. He is merciful and forgives our many sins and then rewards us beyond comprehension. For that I am grateful.

No, do you really believe that slapping your kids or your servants to prove their devotion is appropriate in any way?

 

[Bismillah]

No, do you really believe that slapping your kids or your servants to prove their devotion is appropriate in any way?

Yet I would not slap any of my (non-existant)children unless they did something wrong to warrant punishment.

 

[Commoner]

Yet I would not slap any of my (non-existant)children unless they did something wrong to warrant punishment.

Then it's not a test, is it? It's punishment - why didn't you just say that. People with disabilities are sinners and they are being punished (maybe even for sins they are yet to commit). This really is a perverse logic - even more so, because even though you were given free will, god already knew, as soon as he created you, what you will have done. Doomed from the start, punished in advance.

Lovely, merciful god.

 

[Bismillah]

Then it's not a test, is it? It's punishment - why didn't you just say that. People with disabilities are sinners and they are being punished (maybe even for sins they are yet to commit). This really is a perverse logic - even more so, because even though you were given free will, god already knew, as soon as he created you, what you will have done. Doomed from the start, punished in advance.

Lovely, merciful god.

First of all, if these people really are "sinners from the womb" then why did God not just send them to Hell? Why would he give them the chance to become devout Muslims? That doesn't align with your view of a revengeful or even sadistic God.

No, it is not punishment! It is a trial, a obstacle, a tribulation make of it whatever you will. God is not condemning these people. He gives them greater and greater reward and is more compassionate and merciful when they make mistakes. It is stated in the Qur'an that this world does not matter. It is, metaphorically, a blink of the eye. The Hereafter matters and Allah holds disabled people closely.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Sleep? Sleep is for slackers.

Well if it is not by choice then it is genetic?

Yes

if it is genetic then it would indicate that these animals that commit homosexual acts are homosexual.

Yes

They do not care for the opposite sex.

Depends on the animal. Some primates engage in bisexual behavior.

Yet, I am willing to bet that all those animals are normal heterosexual animals that may or may not engage in homosexual practices (similar to the fact that prisoners also switch back and forth between homo and heterosexuality).

And yet we have cases of gay penguins in New York as well as Germany who are comitted to each other as well as hatching and raising a chick that was rejected by its parents....All that and they live at the zoo in a community of other penguins (some even female) and yet they remain in a relationship.

Then if they do in fact switch from heterosexuality to homosexuality then is it not choice?

Just means they're bisexual.

The basic purpose of every animal is to ensure its genes are passed on. Homosexuality should have died out then no?

And yet...it hasn't.....

 

[Commoner]

First of all, if these people really are "sinners from the womb" then why did God not just send them to Hell? Why would he give them the chance to become devout Muslims? That doesn't align with your view of a revengeful or even sadistic God.

They must have done something, why else would you slap your children - you said it yourself.

No, it is not punishment! It is a trial, a obstacle, a tribulation make of it whatever you will.

Look, it's either a punishemt or a trial. If they've done something to deserve to get slapped, it's a punishment. If not - well, then god is simply slapping his children to prove their devotion - something you yourself find inappropriate.

God is not condemning these people. He gives them greater and greater reward and is more compassionate and merciful when they make mistakes. It is stated in the Qur'an that this world does not matter. It is, metaphorically, a blink of the eye. The Hereafter matters and Allah holds disabled people closely.

This world matters to me. If you slap me without a good reason and then give me a cookie, you can be damn sure you're gonna have trouble. Why did you slap me in the first place?! I just can't wrap my head around this - how is this a merciful, loving character to you?

 

[Gharib]

So it's a bit like slapping your wife to prove to a friend that she wouldn't leave you? If she doesn't, you reward her, if she does, you torture and kill her.

Allah does not test someone in this way.

every reward and every misfortune is a test in islam. if one is thankfull for the rewards then Allah knows best what he does. if one hates Allah for the misfortunes then Allah does not torture and kill you for doing so. there are plenty of non muslims even who associate partners to him (associating partners to Allah is the biggest sin there is). yet they are free to enjoy life and anything they do is what they will get judged upon. Allah is merciful and forgiving, he forgives a serveant who turns to him in repentance and who asks for forgiveness.

so how is what you've said in alignemt to what i've said?

 

[Kerr]

No, it is not punishment! It is a trial, a obstacle, a tribulation make of it whatever you will. God is not condemning these people. He gives them greater and greater reward and is more compassionate and merciful when they make mistakes. It is stated in the Qur'an that this world does not matter. It is, metaphorically, a blink of the eye. The Hereafter matters and Allah holds disabled people closely.

Actually this world matters for that reason. If your deity exist, and this world is our trial then it truly does matter. This world is where we are now, this world is where we are trialed, the only conclusion is that our actions now are the most important things to us. Assuming you are right and you want to follow the word of your deity.

For someone like me, though, it is of little consequence what comes after, I simply try to be a good man no matter the reward or punishment.

And if that in any way sounded like I am a theist, then I blame it on being tired and on, dispite being an atheist, the fact that I like to think about things.

(To be honest, I am not saying I agree or disagree with the kind of God you speak of above... I am way too tired to do that at the moment.)