Proving With The Bible That Jesus Was NEVER Needed And Is A Con Artist

[Firenze]

He said this after his resurrection. He proved himself obedient to God, until he was killed. So after he was resurrected by God, as a spirit creature (1 Peter 3:18), he could accomplish that, since he said that “all authority” had been “given” him.

God doesn’t need authority to be given him, does he? Jesus wasn’t claiming to be Almighty God.



Someone else saying that? That really means nothing. So Jesus didn’t say it… that would be important.
What did Jesus say? He said “concerning that day and hour, nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the son, but only the Father.” — Mark 13:32


Oh my goodness…. Yes, “given” him. God has had it from the gitgo.


Where do you get this from?
Love is a divine attribute…

Question: In Daniel 9, how would the Messiah be “cut-off with nothing for himself”, and being cut-off, how could he “finish off sin”, as the prophecy further states?

You miss the point. Jesus was given divine attributes - by his father god - which means he cannot be the Messiah, since the OT prophets that tell us what attributes the Messiah will have do not include him being the incarnation of god. Just as they don't include a virgin birth or a dozen other made up 'prophesies' the gospel authors lied about.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I believe it is the devil that lies which make me wonder about this post.

I hope you don’t think that’s *all* he can do, because the Bible states otherwise, at 2 Corinthians 11:13-14.

Alone, humans have no effective defense against such a deceptive & more powerful enemy; heck, being an invisible life form, most people don’t even think he exists… such a misconception gives him the ability to work behind the scenes to a great degree. He would love to enslave humans — as sex objects — like he attempted before the Flood (Genesis 6:1-4; Jude 1:6-7). Since he and his angels / demons were kept from accomplishing that (2 Peter 2:4), he’s employed other ways to control and mislead the human family. - Revelation 12:9-12.

All we have to do, is just look at society and it’s pursuits in general.

IMO.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

That's another NT error for trinitarians.

The error rests with trinitarian interpretations, not with the Greek Scriptures.

You miss the point.

I don’t think so…

Jesus was given divine attributes - by his father god - which means he cannot be the Messiah, since the OT prophets that tell us what attributes the Messiah will have do not include him being the incarnation of god.

Where do the Scriptures say he was “the incarnation of God”? Saying Jesus was “the image of God”, or he was “the exact representation” of God’s being (2 Corinthians 4:4, Hebrews 1:3), is still not an incarnation.
He was ‘just like’ his Father, but he *wasnt* his Father. As he himself implied at John 17:3; John 20:17.

Just as they don't include a virgin birth or a dozen other made up 'prophesies' the gospel authors lied about.

Again, please provide scriptural sources for your statements.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Jesus says He is one with the Father…

This has probably been answered, but please read John 17:20-22.

The oneness is in unity. It’s obvious. In context with John 14:28, it’s the only conclusion.

Trinitarians tend to ignore context, grabbing one scripture and running with it. Please, consider the context, I.e., all the Scriptures.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I believe that we can know Jesus by His words and actions as recorded in the New Testament.

You are exactly right!

So if Jesus is “the image of God (2 Corinthians 4:4)”, and “the exact representation” of God’s being (Hebrews 1:3), we can know how Jehovah feels about things.

Why His Word tells us that He was “hurt at his heart.” Why He “regretted” certain choices man had made.

 

[Firenze]

The error rests with trinitarian interpretations, not with the Greek Scriptures.


I don’t think so…


Where do the Scriptures say he was “the incarnation of God”? Saying Jesus was “the image of God”, or he was “the exact representation” of God’s being (2 Corinthians 4:4, Hebrews 1:3), is still not an incarnation.
He was ‘just like’ his Father, but he *wasnt* his Father. As he himself implied at John 17:3; John 20:17.


Again, please provide scriptural sources for your statements.

So you don't believe in the Trinity. No worries. The scriptural proof of the lies of the gospels authors is spelled out in the Messianic prophesies listed by the Prophets. Again, they do not include a virgin birth, crucifixion, or resurrection for the Messiah. Are you not aware of the original prophesies? Jesus failed them. That's why the Jewish experts rejected him. Christians have been duped into tithing to what is now a multi trillion dollar hoax ever since.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are exactly right!

So if Jesus is “the image of God (2 Corinthians 4:4)”, and “the exact representation” of God’s being (Hebrews 1:3), we can know how Jehovah feels about things.

Why His Word tells us that He was “hurt at his heart.” Why He “regretted” certain choices man had made.

Yes, and logically speaking, an image and a representation is not the same as what it is an image of or what it represents. That is why Jesus cannot be God, according to the Bible.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How come you didn’t answer my questions about Daniel’s prophecy in chapter 9?

So you don't believe in the Trinity.

No, of course not! I don’t worship Jesus, I just follow him. So my worship only goes to his Father, Yahweh / Jehovah (as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses). — Exodus 20:2-3

The scriptural proof of the lies of the gospels authors is spelled out in the Messianic prophesies listed by the Prophets.

That’s quite a strong accusation!
After over 35 years of intense scrutiny of the Hebrew & Greek Scriptures, however, I’ve found they do match.

Again, they do not include a virgin birth, crucifixion, or resurrection for the Messiah. Are you not aware of the original prophesies? Jesus failed them.

No, he fit them. (Though I agree he was not crucified, but impaled.)

Again, I’d appreciate an answer to Daniel 9 prophecy.

(Do you understand the Genesis 3:15 prophecy?)

That's why the Jewish experts rejected him.

It is very obvious that those Jewish leaders wanted a Messiah to defeat the Romans; that’s why they rejected him (John 11:47-48).
You call them “experts”, but they weren’t united in their beliefs, there was no consensus among them… you had the Sadducees, the Pharisees, the Essenes, etc.
Jesus was right to berate them (Matthew 23)!

Christians have been duped into tithing to what is now a multi trillion dollar hoax ever since.

Hey, we agree! “Giving the tenth” was the Mosaic Law provision benefiting the Levites; it did/does not apply to anyone else. It just shows the money-loving habits of the clergy. Jesus said to his disciples, “you received free, give free.”

 

[Firenze]

How come you didn’t answer my questions about Daniel’s prophecy in chapter 9?

No, of course not! I don’t worship Jesus, I just follow him. So my worship only goes to his Father, Yahweh / Jehovah (as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses). — Exodus 20:2-3

That’s quite a strong accusation!
After over 35 years of intense scrutiny of the Hebrew & Greek Scriptures, however, I’ve found they do match.



No, he fit them. (Though I agree he was not crucified, but impaled.)

Again, I’d appreciate an answer to Daniel 9 prophecy.

(Do you understand the Genesis 3:15 prophecy?)



It is very obvious that those Jewish leaders wanted a Messiah to defeat the Romans; that’s why they rejected him (John 11:47-48).
You call them “experts”, but they weren’t united in their beliefs, there was no consensus among them… you had the Sadducees, the Pharisees, the Essenes, etc.
Jesus was right to berate them (Matthew 23)!


Hey, we agree! “Giving the tenth” was the Mosaic Law provision benefiting the Levites; it did/does not apply to anyone else. It just shows the money-loving habits of the clergy. Jesus said to his disciples, “you received free, give free.”

Daniel 9 is not a Messianic prophesy. The Jews that wrote the OT hundreds of years before Jesus make that clear. This is easy to learn from the synopses you can find anywhere that answer the question - "How will we know the Messiah?" You can see a typical summary here:

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Again, note the absence of the dramatic features inserted fraudulently by the gospel authors - who knew all that but lied about it anyway.

 

[rational experiences]

Common sense.

Until you exist the human your term in self presence as first one name is human.

The human dominion consciousness then names the identification function for their own human self.

Mr know it all ego man doing all the talking naming concluded by his word usage that it made his human self posituin number one. Inferring a female less than him....as after him as only taught.

Woman after man taught by man first.

Looking back after life's scientific caused machine involved sacrifice. The heavens gas spirit mass changed....he said I had lied. Life was not named and was equal human mutual and human.

The woman human was not less than my life just different.

So he went about honouring all life as everything was different to him.

Now if you ask men. Why do you enforce human name use?

Family recordings.
Family lineage...sex pairing. Healthy baby.
Family inheritance of ownership.

Naming.

So a man can use the name Jesus as they still do and just be a man?

Yes.

Men however used names in science also? Yes. Illegally. As no man is God.

One word one name one description. God was spirit movement on water O rotating cooling spinning by spiral G as GO O DD cooling heat affected becomes GOOD. Explaining only.

Inheritor of God that saved us came about on the ground stopping sin. A sink hole opening...stopped it's ground flesh dust mass collapse...plates.

Not Jesus is earths rock...natural law. So not God by defined term how rock came about by O the same cooling moving function. G O D is evolution cooling by description said men not by definition of substance. Advice only.

Hence its only one name.

Cooling on ground base on circular forming not GOD was explained as JtoJ hook back to back in O at nose point where it fell as sus. Why hook is an old scientific imposed symbol.

Describing only not about substances.

Explaining how a crop circle formed not ever GOD.

Is how Jesus gods Inheritor by ice melt saved us in bio life sacrifice of destruction man's flesh bones blood human body by sin opening plate tectonics carpenter into a collapse.

That satanic temple sciences had caused to open. The teaching by many holy men whose leader man title was given as Jesus our human teacher. About witness of the event.

Just a teaching why flesh human blood leeches sacrificed out of bio cell..chemicals changed.

As in life particular one of men always led any human teaching. A title.

 

[Muffled]

Who said anything about Jesus being superfluous?

I believe if one thinks that Messiah just means that the person will rescue Israel in a time of trouble, they will only be half right because The Messiah also means God is sacrificing Himself on the Cross to guarantee in blood that He will forgive sin.

 

[Muffled]

This all seems terribly far afield. Reviewing the actual Messianic prophesies as written by the undisputed experts on the subject - the Jewish authors themselves - we find the absence of:
A virgin birth
A crucifixion
A resurrection
A second coming (hard to believe the Messiah wouldn't get everything right the first time)
A birth in Bethlehem
Any divine qualities - which is precisely why the Jews rejected Jesus the second divinity was ascribed to him.

And then suddenly this is all ignored by the gospel authors, and dozens...hundreds....thousands of 'prophesies' have sprung up over the centuries. The fraudulent nature of the gospels is proven by the virgin birth myth all by itself. It really seems quite obvious.

I believe all of those things are in the Old Testament and did not spring up in the New Testament.

 

[Muffled]

Can you prove Lord of the Rings has fraudulent intent? You can't, but someday it could be used to perpetrate fraud. The gospels aren't written to you, and it appears you lack the expertise to even investigate whether they are fraudulent. So does the OP, which is why I never bothered with it. This thread is useless, unless somebody can establish that the gospels are written to be taken literally. Nobody can in my experience demonstrate that. Rather it is easy to show they are not meant to be taken literally, word for word or as literal accounts in this universe.

Other purposes for the gospels are easy to come up with. Alibis.

I believe what is literal is literal and what is not is not. Saying it is all one and not the other appears to be lacking a reasonable approach.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe if one thinks that Messiah just means that the person will rescue Israel in a time of trouble, they will only be half right because The Messiah also means God is sacrificing Himself on the Cross to guarantee in blood that He will forgive sin.

..so you say .. I don't think that you made that up.
Somebody else did.

 

[Brickjectivity]

[Hos 11:1-2 NIV] 1 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. 2 But the more they were called, the more they went away from me. They sacrificed to the Baals and they burned incense to images.
[Mat 2:14-15 NIV] 14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."​

Notice, above, that the word 'Fulfillment' in Matthew is not a mistranslation, yet it does not mean that the prophet Hosea writing centuries earlier has predicted anything about Jesus. Its not Matthew's intention to fool anyone about this. He has appealed with scriptures everyone knows. It cannot be hidden, nor is he writing to ignorant children. But con artists approach innocent and ignorant people with empty promises, and they look for things like this which can be misrepresented.

[Mat 15:15-16 NIV] 15 Peter said, "Explain the parable to us." 16 "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.​

And here is Jesus in gospel #1 saying that he does not take responsibility for how anyone misunderstands his words. There is no official, Jesus-approved interpretation out there. You have to find it yourself. If you are dull then you are out of luck. If this is true for Jesus words, then it is true for Matthew's.

 

[Firenze]

I believe all of those things are in the Old Testament and did not spring up in the New Testament.

Never said otherwise. The point is that there are less than a dozen actual Messianic prophesies in the OT - as stated by the experts. They don't include a virgin birth, or many others claimed by the early church. So when the gospels claim a virgin birth to be a sign of the Messiah - they are lying. It's really that simple. Christians now think there are hundreds of prophesies that point to Jesus. I'm afraid they are simply ignorant of how the gospel authors quote mined verses in the OT - pretended they were Messianic - then squeezed Jesus into them. It's the biggest fraud in history. And all Christians have to do is listen to the OT Jews, and read the OT for themselves. It's why we have fewer Christians every day in nations that value Education.....

You can see the Truth for yourself:

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

 

[Firenze]

I believe if one thinks that Messiah just means that the person will rescue Israel in a time of trouble, they will only be half right because The Messiah also means God is sacrificing Himself on the Cross to guarantee in blood that He will forgive sin.

And you're not even close to what the OT Messianic prophesies actually say.

 

[Brian2]

Never said otherwise. The point is that there are less than a dozen actual Messianic prophesies in the OT - as stated by the experts. They don't include a virgin birth, or many others claimed by the early church. So when the gospels claim a virgin birth to be a sign of the Messiah - they are lying. It's really that simple. Christians now think there are hundreds of prophesies that point to Jesus. I'm afraid they are simply ignorant of how the gospel authors quote mined verses in the OT - pretended they were Messianic - then squeezed Jesus into them. It's the biggest fraud in history. And all Christians have to do is listen to the OT Jews, and read the OT for themselves. It's why we have fewer Christians every day in nations that value Education.....

You can see the Truth for yourself:

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

All you are really doing is saying that you think that the opinions of Jews and other non Christians about the gospels and Jesus are true.

 

[Firenze]

All you are really doing is saying that you think that the opinions of Jews and other non Christians about the gospels and Jesus are true.

These are not 'opinions'. There is only one legitimate source for answering the question - "How we will know the Messiah?" And the answer - by the experts - is that Jesus failed to possess the attributes as noted in the article I attached above. I know it hurts to be shown a fool, but the Jews told us this 2000 years ago - the gospel authors knew it was true - but they lied and committed fraud anyway. There is no virgin birth even alluded to in the OT - and certainly not one that has anything to do with Jesus. This was proven millenia ago. And the ignorant pagans that this new religion was sold to had no defense. Such is the power of the Bribe of Heaven and the lure of this now multi trillion dollar industry.

 

[Brian2]

These are not 'opinions'. There is only one legitimate source for answering the question - "How we will know the Messiah?" And the answer - by the experts - is that Jesus failed to possess the attributes as noted in the article I attached above. I know it hurts to be shown a fool, but the Jews told us this 2000 years ago - the gospel authors knew it was true - but they lied and committed fraud anyway. There is no virgin birth even alluded to in the OT - and certainly not one that has anything to do with Jesus. This was proven millenia ago. And the ignorant pagans that this new religion was sold to had no defense. Such is the power of the Bribe of Heaven and the lure of this now multi trillion dollar industry.

The Jews are mistaken.