Question for the Non-Muslims

[Riverwolf]

every way you turn, people are all doing things to get things.

And, I believe, one of the highest spiritual goals is to drop such desires, especially to get material "things."

 

[Riverwolf]

you tell me. i'm not the one who said it's selfish to do something in order to get something.

And I never said that selfishness is inherently ethically or morally wrong.

 

[Gharib]

you are purposefully acting ignorant as you have no answer.



once more i will say, for example if a guy stolen something, according to islamic laws, he would be jailed for some years and will be left free, so his sufferings has an end. But for the same crime the punishment in hell would be never ending, so there is huge difference in the punishment in hell and here, it is not the same. Understand now? waiting for explanation.

the link i gave you earlier explains that, it's not my fault you don't like the answer to your question.

 

[nameless]

the link i gave you earlier explains that, it's not my fault you don't like the answer to your question.

the link you gave me say only why the suffering in the hell is never ending.

My question was why the period of suffering for the same crime differs in hell. The link you gave me has nothing to say about that.

Or you can quote the statement from that website here explaining why it differs punishment duration in hell and here.

 

[Gharib]

And, I believe, one of the highest spiritual goals is to drop such desires, especially to get material "things."

a muslims desire is to be with Allah, his prophet and to be rewarded with paradise, it is etternal, we choose it over the material things, although without the material things we would not be able to live our lives, so both are important to us.

 

[Copernicus]

you don't know that, don't say about Allah that wich yu do not know.

Sorry. I got carried away by your example.

 

[Copernicus]

exactly, thats why Allah says turn to me in repentance and i will forgive you. Allah will not force you to repent, that would mean no free will. so it's up to you to get things right before the deadline.

Why would the creator of the universe even care whether I repented? How can an allegedly perfect being behave like such a petty, vindictive tyrant?

 

[gnostic]

a muslims desire is to be with Allah, his prophet and to be rewarded with paradise, it is etternal, we choose it over the material things, although without the material things we would not be able to live our lives, so both are important to us.

Are you saying that desiring material thing to be "selfish"?

Aren't you being even more "selfish" when you are desiring "eternal life" and "reward"?

You want immortality. You want eternal life. You want reward. You want 70 virgins. You want to be near Allah.

This sounds like a gimme, gimme, gimme greed and lust, no different and certainly no better than a person desiring material or if you like earthly rewards or gains. Sounds a lot more selfish and greedy.

I have never desire long life, let alone immortality or eternal life. I have no desire for rewards in heaven. And I certainly have no desire to be acquainted with a selfish, bloodthirsty tyrant of a god, that demands worship or get thrown to hell.

As far as I can tell neither heaven or hell, nor your god exist.

 

[Gharib]

Are you saying that desiring material thing to be "selfish"?

Aren't you being even more "selfish" when you are desiring "eternal life" and "reward"?

You want immortality. You want eternal life. You want reward. You want 70 virgins. You want to be near Allah.

This sounds like a gimme, gimme, gimme greed and lust, no different and certainly no better than a person desiring material or if you like earthly rewards or gains. Sounds a lot more selfish and greedy.

I have never desire long life, let alone immortality or eternal life. I have no desire for rewards in heaven. And I certainly have no desire to be acquainted with a selfish, bloodthirsty tyrant of a god, that demands worship or get thrown to hell.

As far as I can tell neither heaven or hell, nor your god exist.

please go educate yourself first then come and post, i can't deal with that level of willfull ignorance.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

please go educate yourself first then come and post, i can't deal with that level of willfull ignorance.

I see you have an amply supply of irony pills on hand.

BTW, you have still have not answered my question. Are YOU afraid the christian god will send YOU to hell for rejecting him? If not, why not?

When have an answer you will know why I have no fear of your allah thingy sending ME anywhere.

 

[JustWondering]

I would not hold your breath Omar, eselam seems more interested in proselytizing then debating/discussing.

 

[Riverwolf]

a muslims desire is to be with Allah, his prophet and to be rewarded with paradise, it is etternal, we choose it over the material things, although without the material things we would not be able to live our lives, so both are important to us.

What makes Paradise Paradise?

 

[IndigoStorm]

It is rather difficult for us Atheists to debate this kind of thread, which no doubt begs the question: "Why are you posting here then?" Sigh ... I am a post whore!

There is a heaven or nirvana only if you believe there is and there is a hell only if you believe there is. Which is not to say that many many millions of Christians who believe in God and many many Muslims who believe in Allah are wrong.

I must say that based on my experience, given the choice with a gun to my head, I would not choose Islam or Christianity.

 

[Metempsychosis]

I must say that based on my experience, given the choice with a gun to my head, I would not choose Islam or Christianity.

Which one religion you would choose other than Islam and Christianity.,just curious.

 

[Autodidact]

Non-muslims: Why would God care about the religions other than Islam?
Eselam: Why would non-muslims not care if Allah sent them to hell for following religions other than Islam?


I don't see his point, either . . .

I can't follow his thinking at all. Anyone else?

 

[IndigoStorm]

Which one religion you would choose other than Islam and Christianity.,just curious.

I think I would follow the teachings of the Buddha.

 

[Metempsychosis]

I think I would follow the teachings of the Buddha.

Thanks .

 

[DarkSun]

i live in oz mate.

same with islam, one tells others about it and hopefully people accept it and thats a win-win for all. i go to paradise, you go to paradise, everyne that accepts islam goes to paradise. why is it OK to work for money but it is not OK to work for paradise?

But that's my point. I don't work for money. I need money to work. And I work so that I can help others and do what I want to with my life. So yes, it is partly for self-reward that I'm working, but I'm also doing this to help others. By definition, it is selfish to do the right thing only to get the reward out of it, and it says nothing about yourself to do the right thing because you'll go to hell if you don't.

If you do the right thing to get paradise in the end, then you're really only ever out for yourself when doing the right thing. So even if you do volunteer work, help people out whenever you can, etc, if the reason you did that was to get into paradise, then you haven't done anything because you want to help others - you've ultimately done it for yourself.

And if you do the right thing because you're afraid of getting sent to hell, it'd be like doing what you're told to do by a masked assailant who's pointing a gun at your head. Again, you're not doing the right thing because you genuinely want to. You're doing it because the choice of doing the wrong thing is taken away, which ultimately says nothing about your character. At all.

This is why it says so much more about your virtue if you do the right thing without belief in paradise or hell. With this mindset, there is no hope of a reward at the end. There is no threat of eternal pain. You're doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing, and because you genuinely want to do the right thing. This says much more about you than anything else.

If Allah sends altruistic people to hell for not believing in him, or for doing things that He might disagree with, then He really is a tyrant. Heck, if Allah sends anyone to a world of pain, anyone, then He is not "most-merciful", and He most definitely is not "perfect" - because even I would not do such a thing. And if you're saying that He can't help but send these people to hell, because they chose it, then you're limiting his power, and therefore according to you, He is not all-powerful.

Eselam, what was the purpose of this thread? You've said "why would non-muslims care if Allah sent them to hell". But you've also said in retrospect that you don't even know if Allah is going to send non-believers to hell, that it would be up to Him to make a "fair" judgement (as if it would be "fair" to torture anyone for eternity). Well, if you don't know if non-believers are going to hell, then why make the statement? Haven't you, as a human, made an imperfect judgement about another person in doing so?

 

[challupa]

But that's my point. I don't work for money. I need money to work. And I work so that I can help others and do what I want to with my life. So yes, it is partly for self-reward that I'm working, but I'm also doing this to help others. By definition, it is selfish to do the right thing only to get the reward out of it, and it says nothing about yourself to do the right thing because you'll go to hell if you don't.

If you do the right thing to get paradise in the end, then you're really only ever out for yourself when doing the right thing. So even if you do volunteer work, help people out whenever you can, etc, if the reason you did that was to get into paradise, then you haven't done anything because you want to help others - you've ultimately done it for yourself.

And if you do the right thing because you're afraid of getting sent to hell, it'd be like doing what you're told to do by a masked assailant who's pointing a gun at your head. Again, you're not doing the right thing because you genuinely want to. You're doing it because the choice of doing the wrong thing is taken away, which ultimately says nothing about your character. At all.

This is why it says so much more about your virtue if you do the right thing without belief in paradise or hell. With this mindset, there is no hope of a reward at the end. There is no threat of eternal pain. You're doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing, and because you genuinely want to do the right thing. This says much more about you than anything else.

If Allah sends altruistic people to hell for not believing in him, or for doing things that He might disagree with, then He really is a tyrant. Heck, if Allah sends anyone to a world of pain, anyone, then He is not "most-merciful", and He most definitely is not "perfect" - because even I would not do such a thing. And if you're saying that He can't help but send these people to hell, because they chose it, then you're limiting his power, and therefore according to you, He is not all-powerful.

Eselam, what was the purpose of this thread? You've said "why would non-muslims care if Allah sent them to hell". But you've also said in retrospect that you don't even know if Allah is going to send non-believers to hell, that it would be up to Him to make a "fair" judgement (as if it would be "fair" to torture anyone for eternity). Well, if you don't know if non-believers are going to hell, then why make the statement? Haven't you, as a human, made an imperfect judgement about another person in doing so?

Good post. My thoughts run along these lines and I really don't understand why religious people don't get that?:no: It just seems so obvious...

 

[gnomon]

The haughty and the proud will find abode in me.

And who can be more proud than those who state with knowledge who is and is not going to heaven and hell.