Question for the Non-Muslims

[OmarKhayyam]

Response: When Allah sends a prophet, He does send the message himself, for the prophet is the message.

Doesn't answer the question. But not surprising coming from this poster.

Irrelevancy - what else is new.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Note that this is exactly what we would expect if there was no God. We would expect to see lots of human beings claiming to speak on behalf of God ("prophets") but not God himself. And in fact, this is precisely what we DO see in every religion. But Islam's prophets were the real deal. Trust me.

By the way, one of my prophets wrote this post for me. Far more convincing that if I had wrote it myself, no?
Wait, actually I did write this post myself. Through my prophet. There is no difference between these two things.

 

[Gharib]

Note that this is exactly what we would expect if there was no God. We would expect to see lots of human beings claiming to speak on behalf of God ("prophets") but not God himself. And in fact, this is precisely what we DO see in every religion. But Islam's prophets were the real deal. Trust me.

By the way, one of my prophets wrote this post for me. Far more convincing that if I had wrote it myself, no?
Wait, actually I did write this post myself. Through my prophet. There is no difference between these two things.

here's another example, for you then.

you are having a diner party and you tell me the names of the people i should invite. when i go and tell them Mr Sprinkles said this and this and this person are invited to his diner party, why would those people come? if it was that we must hear it from the original person who said it, like how you don't accept what these prophets tell us and it must come from god himself for you to believe in it, why do the people you told me to invite accept the invitation?

Allah also invites his serveants through his messengers, so does that make their words wrong because god wasn't there to say them?

 

[Fatihah]

Doesn't answer the question. But not surprising coming from this poster.

Irrelevancy - what else is new.

Response: And when a person sees a relevant answer as irrelevent to their own question, that would go to show that they themself didn't comprehend their own question. But that is not surprising, coming this the claimant.

 

[Tiapan]

I am my own prophet I speak to myself often. I am always right so I dont need other prophets.

Cheers

 

[Amill]

here's another example, for you then.

you are having a diner party and you tell me the names of the people i should invite. when i go and tell them Mr Sprinkles said this and this and this person are invited to his diner party, why would those people come? if it was that we must hear it from the original person who said it, like how you don't accept what these prophets tell us and it must come from god himself for you to believe in it, why do the people you told me to invite accept the invitation?

Allah also invites his serveants through his messengers, so does that make their words wrong because god wasn't there to say them?

Each claim is different. If you went and told people that a giant purple elephant, not a person, was inviting them to come to the dinner they'd probably be a little skeptical, no? And then add in the fact that there are many other messengers telling the same people about their colorful elephant and his dinner, stating that all the other messengers are lying. Whom do we believe?

You can't just turn off skepticism. And since there are many explanations for the existence of everything, in order to believe one view to be more likely than the others, we must be CONVINCED that it is more likely true.

 

[Riverwolf]

"but one thing you should note is that Allah has sent about 124thousand prophets and many revelations, so if he didn't make his revelation stand out from the corrupt ones then i wouldn't know what to say to that."

BTW, why does a god NEED prophets? He can't get his message out himself? Seems easy enough for the creator of the universe. Yet NONE of the gods we have ever invented have been able to do this. They ALL had some mortal creatures selling their message.

Seems passing strange.

Dude... Krishna.

 

[Riverwolf]

here's another example, for you then.

you are having a diner party and you tell me the names of the people i should invite. when i go and tell them Mr Sprinkles said this and this and this person are invited to his diner party, why would those people come? if it was that we must hear it from the original person who said it, like how you don't accept what these prophets tell us and it must come from god himself for you to believe in it, why do the people you told me to invite accept the invitation?

Allah also invites his serveants through his messengers, so does that make their words wrong because god wasn't there to say them?

We use messengers because we often can't do the messaging ourselves.

Poor comparison, I'm afraid.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Response: When Allah sends a prophet, He does send the message himself, for the prophet is the message.

"When Allah sends a prophet" - STOP! WHY does Allah or any god need to SEND anyone? Or is that concept too complex to be grasped?


Why dont "God" come his own self? He busy making another universe somewhere else? Maybe he's tired and needs a break?

Or maybe there ain't no god and never was.:yes:

 

[DarkSun]

same thing, if temporary doesn't equal eternity then nor should minutes equal years.

You misrepresented what I said. In this life, you will get a finite punishment for any wrong you have committed. What you are suggesting is eternal damnation, regardless of whether the person learns his or her lesson during the punishment. That is grossly infair, even by my standards... and I'm not the one claiming to be "all-merciful".

I would NEVER torture another person for eternity as punishment, no matter what they've done. That's just sick. Hell sounds more like some sadistic human revenge fantasy than anything else.

 

[DarkSun]

"When Allah sends a prophet" - STOP! WHY does Allah or any god need to SEND anyone? Or is that concept too complex to be grasped?


Why dont "God" come his own self? He busy making another universe somewhere else? Maybe he's tired and needs a break?

Or maybe there ain't no god and never was.:yes:

If you want to argue that there is no God, start a new thread.

 

[zenzero]

Friend OmarKhayyam,

Originally Posted by OmarKhayyam
"When Allah sends a prophet" - STOP! WHY does Allah or any god need to SEND anyone? Or is that concept too complex to be grasped?
Why dont "God" come his own self? He busy making another universe somewhere else? Maybe he's tired and needs a break?

Or maybe there ain't no god and never was.

It is true that there is no god.
It is just a concept developed by us humans for an understanding.
No one has sent anyone, agree with you. It is just a *thought* and any thought creates dualities. So by creating god we created satan by default.
Since *god* is nothing but the energy all around and that energy is always inside and outside the perceiver and only the perceiver has to merge with the perceived; then existence is at peace with ITSELF!

Love & rgds

 

[Mr Spinkles]

here's another example, for you then.

you are having a diner party and you tell me the names of the people i should invite. when i go and tell them Mr Sprinkles said this and this and this person are invited to his diner party, why would those people come? if it was that we must hear it from the original person who said it, like how you don't accept what these prophets tell us and it must come from god himself for you to believe in it, why do the people you told me to invite accept the invitation?

Allah also invites his serveants through his messengers, so does that make their words wrong because god wasn't there to say them?

I am mortal. I can't be everywhere at once. If I was all-powerful and could appear everywhere at once I wouldn't need messengers.

 

[Gharib]

I am mortal. I can't be everywhere at once. If I was all-powerful and could appear everywhere at once I wouldn't need messengers.

you must note that us humans in this worldy form that we are in cannot see god in his original form. so ok lets say god appeared in the likeness of man. no one would believe him. why? well because he is a man. so people will ask for miracles, and if god did that, then everyone would believe in him. there goes the big test we have to pass in this life.

having said that god did give miracles to his prophets to present to the people. the greatest miracle given to Muhammed (saws) is the Qur'an. Jesus (as) and Moses (as) had other miracles.

Moses (as) split the ocean in 2 with the permission of Allah in order that his people may get to the other side of land and as the quran also states the faroh of that time was drownd in that water. as it has been discovered by scientists.

Jesus (as) gave sight to the blind and life to the dead with Allahs permission. aren't they miracles that we must believe in?

see even after so mamy miracles man is still not satisfied and will never be untill he actually sees both hell and heaven.

 

[Gharib]

Each claim is different. If you went and told people that a giant purple elephant, not a person, was inviting them to come to the dinner they'd probably be a little skeptical, no? And then add in the fact that there are many other messengers telling the same people about their colorful elephant and his dinner, stating that all the other messengers are lying. Whom do we believe?

You can't just turn off skepticism. And since there are many explanations for the existence of everything, in order to believe one view to be more likely than the others, we must be CONVINCED that it is more likely true.

even if someone cape up to you and said a rare purple elephant exists and i saw him you would not believe him. when you ask him about it he will say it looks like any ordinary elephant but it just had a purple colour. would you believe that?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

you must note that us humans in this worldy form that we are in cannot see god in his original form. so ok lets say god appeared in the likeness of man. no one would believe him. why? well because he is a man. so people will ask for miracles, and if god did that, then everyone would believe in him. there goes the big test we have to pass in this life.

having said that god did give miracles to his prophets to present to the people. the greatest miracle given to Muhammed (saws) is the Qur'an. Jesus (as) and Moses (as) had other miracles.

Moses (as) split the ocean in 2 with the permission of Allah in order that his people may get to the other side of land and as the quran also states the faroh of that time was drownd in that water. as it has been discovered by scientists.

Jesus (as) gave sight to the blind and life to the dead with Allahs permission. aren't they miracles that we must believe in?

see even after so mamy miracles man is still not satisfied and will never be untill he actually sees both hell and heaven.

I could respond to this, but it's somewhat off topic and you probably know what I'm going to say anyway. Agree to disagree my friend.

 

[Gharib]

I could respond to this, but it's somewhat off topic and you probably know what I'm going to say anyway. Agree to disagree my friend.

well the title of the thread is questions for the non muslims. it would not be in violation of anything. but you don't have to answer if you do not want to. what about dissagreeing to agree? does that ever work?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

well the title of the thread is questions for the non muslims. it would not be in violation of anything. but you don't have to answer if you do not want to. what about dissagreeing to agree? does that ever work?

Hehe. Well in that case I would simply say

(1) it is possible to rationalize anything (just read Christian apologetics, for example you will instantly see what I mean); and

(2) the rationalizations you gave are precisely those used in other (false) religions, and they are precisely the rationalizations we would expect if there was no God interacting with humans in the way that you claim. In other words, if there was not a God, we would expect all the "evidence" to consist of humans (not god directly) claiming to speak on his behalf, and stories of miracles performed centuries ago *as we see in other false religions* (e.g. Christianity and the miracle of the Resurrection). Not actual miracles, occurring regularly every day, but rare and implausible stories recorded by the human hand in our ignorant past. It would be necessary to explain why God never manifests himself directly. The concept that this is all a "test" gets the job done, though awkwardly.

So in other words, IF what you are saying is true, yes we expect to see prophets and God not manifesting directly. I concede that to you. But IF what you say is not true, then we still expect to see prophets and God not manifesting directly just as we expect (and see) this in all the false religions. (You and I both know why the Greek gods only spoke through the Oracle of Delphi .... they could only speak through humans because humans made them up!)

 

[Onkara]

Q: why do you care if Allah was to send you to hell?

As a non-muslim, I have already accepted I will go to Hell. I have no fear knowing that as I accept also that it is His will.

 

[Metempsychosis]

As a non-muslim, I have already accepted I will go to Hell. I have no fear knowing that it is His will.

Happy journey.Probably I will come with you.