Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I do not have to do anything. Scriptures can be made to mean anything you want them to mean. It is only the Christian interpretation of the Bible that leads you to believe that. The NT does not “say” that God became a man or that the Holy Spirit lives inside of human beings. That is your interpretation.Then you are going to have to show that the NT authors were in error. The entire NT concerns God becoming a man and dwelling with us.
You do not have a God and neither do I. God is everyone’s God. I do not need to show that God is not capable of putting on flesh. All I need is a logical mind and the Writings of Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah clearly explained why that is impossible. All of God cannot become flesh, but the Attributes of God became flesh when God manifested Himself in Jesus and Jesus testified of God. Jesus was a Manifestation of God, not God incarnate.Then your God is not as great as my own. You need to show that God is not capable of putting on flesh.
“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49
The following verse is accurate:
1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
There is absolutely no reason to think that only God can forgive sins. Baha’u’llah wrote that Jesus forgave sins:Jesus forgave sins, only God can do that. Jesus existed before the universe, he has never not existed, he did miracles in his own name, he is the only being to be resurrected, he created everything, he has been placed over everything etc.... He sure sounds like a deity.
“It is also recorded in the Gospel according to St. Luke, that on a certain day Jesus passed by a Jew who was sick of the palsy, and lay upon a couch. When the Jew saw Him, he recognized Him, and cried out for His help. Jesus said unto him: “Arise from thy bed; thy sins are forgiven thee.” Certain of the Jews, standing by, protested saying: “Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” And immediately He perceived their thoughts, Jesus answering said unto them: “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, arise, and take up thy bed, and walk; or to say, thy sins are forgiven thee? that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins.” 7 This is the real sovereignty, and such is the power of God’s chosen Ones! All these things which We have repeatedly mentioned, and the details which We have cited from divers sources, have no other purpose but to enable thee to grasp the meaning of the allusions in the utterances of the chosen Ones of God, lest certain of these utterances cause thy feet to falter and thy heart to be dismayed.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 133-134
It is a Baha’i belief that the soul of Jesus existed in the spiritual world before Jesus was born into this world. Since the spiritual world is without beginning or end that means the soul of Jesus always existed.
There is no reason to think that only God can perform miracles. A Manifestation of God can perform miracles because He is not an ordinary man; He is a higher order of creation and He has a divine mind.
I love how translators take it upon themselves to change the whole meaning of the NT and make it say what they want it to say... How convenient.John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Below are the accurate translations which are very similar.
John 1:18
CEB No one has ever seen God. God the only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made God known.
NASB No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NCV No one has ever seen God. But God the only Son is very close to the Father, and he has shown us what God is like.
NKJV No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
NLV The much-loved Son is beside the Father. No man has ever seen God. But Christ has made God known to us.
RSV No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
WE No one has ever seen God. But his only Son is very near to his Father's heart. He has told us plainly about God.
John 1:18 - Bible Gateway
“but the one and only Son, who is himself God” makes absolutely no sense to anyone who thinks logically. Jesus was either the Son of God or God; He cannot be both. I know the Trinity says this but it makes no sense at all. Jesus was the Son of God, a perfect mirror image of God who therefore manifested God. As the translations above say, Jesus declared God, made God known, told us plainly about God, showed us what God is like, explained God. If Jesus was God, Jesus would not have to tell us about God or explain God.
Of course I am familiar with the Trinity but I do not believe that God is three Persons.Jesus is not the father yet still divine. Are you familiar with the trinity?
God lives in our hearts when we are close to God but that does not mean that God literally takes up residence in our bodies. God can manifest Himself in the flesh, but that is different from God becoming flesh. God cannot become flesh.1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
New International Version
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
If God is in us then he can manifest himself in the flesh.
They are both divine because Jesus had a divine nature as well as a human nature, but Jesus was not God in the flesh.John 17:3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
John 7:28-29 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.
Christ is differentiating between the father and he the son as far as their rolls are concerned not whether they are both divine.
God was with us because God “manifested” Himself in Jesus.Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
This verse does not refer to Jesus. Jesus did not have the government upon his shoulder. Rather He said "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's".Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
This verse refers to Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace because His Mission was to establish peace on earth. He also set up a system of government and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. They will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).
Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Baha’u’llah was the Lord of Hosts and He rules upon the Throne of David.
“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90