paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Isn't one's Atheism the most weird , the most amazing and the most unnatural among no-religions, please? Right, please?
Regards
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Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:
[34:7]وَ یَرَی الَّذِیۡنَ اُوۡتُوا الۡعِلۡمَ الَّذِیۡۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡکَ مِنۡ رَّبِّکَ ہُوَ الۡحَقَّ ۙ وَ یَہۡدِیۡۤ اِلٰی صِرَاطِ الۡعَزِیۡزِ الۡحَمِیۡدِ ﴿۷﴾
And those who are given knowledge see that whatever has been revealed to thee from thy Lord is the truth, and guides unto the path of the Mighty, the Praiseworthy.
[34:8]وَ قَالَ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا ہَلۡ نَدُلُّکُمۡ عَلٰی رَجُلٍ یُّنَبِّئُکُمۡ اِذَا مُزِّقۡتُمۡ کُلَّ مُمَزَّقٍ ۙ اِنَّکُمۡ لَفِیۡ خَلۡقٍ جَدِیۡدٍ ۚ﴿۸﴾
And those who disbelieve say, ‘Shall we show you a man who will tell you that when you are broken up into pieces, you shall be raised as a new creation?
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 34: Saba
Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
____________
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:
[34:7]وَ یَرَی الَّذِیۡنَ اُوۡتُوا الۡعِلۡمَ الَّذِیۡۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡکَ مِنۡ رَّبِّکَ ہُوَ الۡحَقَّ ۙ وَ یَہۡدِیۡۤ اِلٰی صِرَاطِ الۡعَزِیۡزِ الۡحَمِیۡدِ ﴿۷﴾
And those who are given knowledge see that whatever has been revealed to thee from thy Lord is the truth, and guides unto the path of the Mighty, the Praiseworthy.
[34:8]وَ قَالَ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا ہَلۡ نَدُلُّکُمۡ عَلٰی رَجُلٍ یُّنَبِّئُکُمۡ اِذَا مُزِّقۡتُمۡ کُلَّ مُمَزَّقٍ ۙ اِنَّکُمۡ لَفِیۡ خَلۡقٍ جَدِیۡدٍ ۚ﴿۸﴾
And those who disbelieve say, ‘Shall we show you a man who will tell you that when you are broken up into pieces, you shall be raised as a new creation?
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 34: Saba
Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
- Is there any such verse in the Torah of the Judaism where G-d has directly addressed Moses, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Is there any such verse in the Bible of the Christianity where G-d (not Jesus, as Jesus was never god or son of god) has directly addressed Jesus, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?
____________
- I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?
- "یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ " translated in English with the words "O Messenger" is another style, please refer my post #243 .
- "وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی "/ "If only thou couldst see" as mentioned in post #255.
- Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] "فَاَعۡرِضۡ" , "وَ انۡتَظِرۡ" So turn away from them, and wait #261.
What's unnatural about it?
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Polytheism. Religion's power is in trying to explain things we don't understand. Problem is, we understand more and more everyday, so the value of religion is more circumscribed as time passes.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"so the value of religion is more circumscribed as time passes"
Friend @Wandering Monk !
Is it one's own conjecture or it is from Science, please?
Regards
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
I am speaking of empirical knowledge about the universe from applying science.
People used to attribute natural phenomenon to the gods. We don't do that anymore.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
The Creator G-d had made it known to the humanity through Muhammad the chosen and appointed Messenger/Prophet of G-d by His Direct Converse that the humans who will be broken up into pieces after death, they shall be raised as a new creation after death.
Isn't it a good news, please?
Regards
_____________
Some people who have not read Quran; not to speak of the original Arabic text but they have not even read it from a translation carefully; they have a notion that Quran discourages questions.
Please observe that there were in fact questions asked by the disbelievers well recorded and well answered by G-d in the Quranic verses, please.
And there are lot many more questions asked by the disbelievers and answered by G-d in Quran.
Kindly get corrected in this connection. Right, please?
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
There is an additional point in my above post #342 in the quoted Quranic verses (colored in blue) that is to be carefully noted by the friends*:
The Creator G-d had made it known to the humanity through Muhammad the chosen and appointed Messenger/Prophet of G-d by His Direct Converse that the humans who will be broken up into pieces after death, they shall be raised as a new creation after death.
Isn't it a good news, please?
Regards
_____________
Some people who have not read Quran; not to speak of the original Arabic text but they have not even read it from a translation carefully; they have a notion that Quran discourages questions.
Please observe that there were in fact questions asked by the disbelievers well recorded and well answered by G-d in the Quranic verses, please.
And there are lot many more questions asked by the disbelievers and answered by G-d in Quran.
Kindly get corrected in this connection. Right, please?
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What if we have new questions,who will answer?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Friend! I know that is one's belief, but now one has to prove it to help us understand one's belief with reason or, is it one acknowledgement that one's belief is in blindfaith, please?
The above sentence colored in magenta is one's conjecture in general which entails that the whole book of Iqan is Direct Converse of/from G-d with Bahaullah. So we need these claims from within the main text of Iqan Farsi in an unequivocal and straightforward manner that:
- the whole Iqan is Direct Converse of/from G-d with Bahaullah.
- Iqan is not authored by Bahaullah.
- and the natural words in the main text of Iqan demonstrate to that effect.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I understand that applied science is less of Pure Science. Is it so, please?
Regards
I read the Kitab-i-quan and I see it is from God.
You have read it, it is your choice as what you decide and why that is your decision.
This is how it opens;
IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD, THE EXALTED, THE MOST HIGH.
"No man shall attain the shores of the ocean of true understanding except he be detached from all that is in heaven and on earth. Sanctify your souls, O ye peoples of the world, that haply ye may attain that station which God hath destined for you and enter thus the tabernacle which, according to the dispensations of Providence, hath been raised in the firmament of the Bayán."
Regards Tony
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:
[34:23]قُلِ ادۡعُوا الَّذِیۡنَ زَعَمۡتُمۡ مِّنۡ دُوۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ لَا یَمۡلِکُوۡنَ مِثۡقَالَ ذَرَّۃٍ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ لَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ وَ مَا لَہُمۡ فِیۡہِمَا مِنۡ شِرۡکٍ وَّ مَا لَہٗ مِنۡہُمۡ مِّنۡ ظَہِیۡرٍ ﴿۲۳﴾
Say, ‘Call upon those whom you assert to be gods beside Allah. They control not even the weight of an atom in the heavens or in the earth, nor have they any share in either, nor has He any helper among them.’
[34:24]وَ لَا تَنۡفَعُ الشَّفَاعَۃُ عِنۡدَہٗۤ اِلَّا لِمَنۡ اَذِنَ لَہٗ ؕ حَتّٰۤی اِذَا فُزِّعَ عَنۡ قُلُوۡبِہِمۡ قَالُوۡا مَاذَا ۙ قَالَ رَبُّکُمۡ ؕ قَالُوا الۡحَقَّ ۚ وَ ہُوَ الۡعَلِیُّ الۡکَبِیۡرُ ﴿۲۴﴾
No intercession avails with Him, except for him about whom He permits it, until when their hearts are relieved of fright they would say, ‘What is it that your Lord said?’ They (the Messengers) will answer, ‘The truth.’ And He is the High, the Great.
[34:25]قُلۡ مَنۡ یَّرۡزُقُکُمۡ مِّنَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ قُلِ اللّٰہُ ۙ وَ اِنَّاۤ اَوۡ اِیَّاکُمۡ لَعَلٰی ہُدًی اَوۡ فِیۡ ضَلٰلٍ مُّبِیۡنٍ ﴿۲۵﴾
Say, ‘Who gives you sustenance from the heavens and the earth?’ Say, ‘Allah. Either we or you are on right guidance or in manifest error.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 34: Saba
Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
____________
"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "
Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:
[34:23]قُلِ ادۡعُوا الَّذِیۡنَ زَعَمۡتُمۡ مِّنۡ دُوۡنِ اللّٰہِ ۚ لَا یَمۡلِکُوۡنَ مِثۡقَالَ ذَرَّۃٍ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ لَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ وَ مَا لَہُمۡ فِیۡہِمَا مِنۡ شِرۡکٍ وَّ مَا لَہٗ مِنۡہُمۡ مِّنۡ ظَہِیۡرٍ ﴿۲۳﴾
Say, ‘Call upon those whom you assert to be gods beside Allah. They control not even the weight of an atom in the heavens or in the earth, nor have they any share in either, nor has He any helper among them.’
[34:24]وَ لَا تَنۡفَعُ الشَّفَاعَۃُ عِنۡدَہٗۤ اِلَّا لِمَنۡ اَذِنَ لَہٗ ؕ حَتّٰۤی اِذَا فُزِّعَ عَنۡ قُلُوۡبِہِمۡ قَالُوۡا مَاذَا ۙ قَالَ رَبُّکُمۡ ؕ قَالُوا الۡحَقَّ ۚ وَ ہُوَ الۡعَلِیُّ الۡکَبِیۡرُ ﴿۲۴﴾
No intercession avails with Him, except for him about whom He permits it, until when their hearts are relieved of fright they would say, ‘What is it that your Lord said?’ They (the Messengers) will answer, ‘The truth.’ And He is the High, the Great.
[34:25]قُلۡ مَنۡ یَّرۡزُقُکُمۡ مِّنَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ قُلِ اللّٰہُ ۙ وَ اِنَّاۤ اَوۡ اِیَّاکُمۡ لَعَلٰی ہُدًی اَوۡ فِیۡ ضَلٰلٍ مُّبِیۡنٍ ﴿۲۵﴾
Say, ‘Who gives you sustenance from the heavens and the earth?’ Say, ‘Allah. Either we or you are on right guidance or in manifest error.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 34: Saba
Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
- Is there any such verse in the Torah of the Judaism where G-d has directly addressed Moses, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Is there any such verse in the Bible of the Christianity where G-d (not Jesus, as Jesus was never god or son of god) has directly addressed Jesus, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
- Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?
____________
- I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?
- "یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ " translated in English with the words "O Messenger" is another style, please refer my post #243 .
- "وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی "/ "If only thou couldst see" as mentioned in post #255.
- Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] "فَاَعۡرِضۡ" , "وَ انۡتَظِرۡ" So turn away from them, and wait #261.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Friend!
Please mention one's top most (one) question (only) which has risen in one's own heart naturally while studying/researching Quran/Islam/Muhammad, not from questions which are in circulation like a rhetoric in different sites opposed to Islam, please.
Right, please?
Regards
What do you mean by that?
Are you talking about atheism in general? Atheism is not at all weird, unnatural or even remarkable. It is as natural as breathing, arguably more so even.
Or are you asking about something specifically related to @English my lionheart?
Less, how so?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Isn't polytheism the flip side of Atheism, please? Or Atheism is the flip side of polytheism, please? When people get astray from the natural position of truthful Oneness of G-d they slip to Atheism or Polytheism. Right, please?
Regards
That would be an interesting argument to make, but it requires a bit of established parameters.
It is true that both atheism and polytheism stand in opposition and contrast to monotheism, but all three stances - including monotheism, even - have a lot more nuance and variety than I would expect to find in something that could be described as flip-sides of each other.
Monotheism's claim to be a natural position is, at best, tentative.
Historically, polytheism and IMO atheism have been shown to be considerably more common, at least as far as spontaneous belief stances go.
Also, and this is very relevant here, to the extent that monotheism may occur spontaneously, it can hardly be said to validate any of the Abrahamics.
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That's not answering my question my question,it's an easy one to answer,humans ask the questions and find the answers themselves.
A question about Muhammed Quran or Islam would be,why is it that in the places where Islam is prevalent in the world and where it's followers study the quran,perform prayers 5 times a day are also some of the worst places to live in the world?.
Another would be: why is it that Muslims generally show such a poor understanding of both religion and human nature, to the point of having a far more urgent need than the average non-Muslim to be reminded and convinced that difference of beliefs is not an indicator of bad character nor of a need for hostility?
An excellent question and like mine unlikely to get an answer.