Quran is free of errors

[Ghostaka]

Come on people, forget Satan's whispers. Try to read what is being said to you with an open mind. We are not asking for your credit card details or that you praise us. We are not even messengers. Just Muslims.

151. Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know.

152. So remember Me; I will remember you. And be grateful to Me and do not deny Me.

{The Holy Qur'an Chapter 2}

Peace be upon you.

 

[darkendless]

Response: You see, the beauty of the qur'an is that it answers your questions once you take the chance to have an open mind when reading it. Allah does so because he guides us towards him through signs in his creation.

It took us a long time to get here. We're only here now because some muslim members can be reasonable and recognise that we're not actually made of clay, but a derivative of clay at best.

I retain my skepticism but i can accept that it is possible that if we were created (which i do not believe we were), clay derivatives were a possible source.

However, in saying that, creation is not a very scientific observation. However, its ok to believe it.

Allah created man from clay as one of the many signs that indicate to us that He is the creator. When we study the human body, we can see that the elements that make up clay are within us. This message of Muhammad(pbuh) is an understanding that he could not have known unless it was revealed to him from the creator, thus being a sign that Allah is the creator of life and the universe. That is why he made us from clay and that is why when we die, our bodies return back to our original form of dirt and dust, another sign as to the creation of man and how we originated.

In my opinion a lucky guess. The human body has about 60 elements in us, of which, those 60 elements make about 400,000 different soil types. Muhammed got lucky, not that it was very hard.

 

[darkendless]

Come on people, forget Satan's whispers. Try to read what is being said to you with an open mind. We are not asking for your credit card details or that you praise us. We are not even messengers. Just Muslims.

151. Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know.

152. So remember Me; I will remember you. And be grateful to Me and do not deny Me.

{The Holy Qur'an Chapter 2}

Peace be upon you.

Mate i respect muslims, but i respect anyone more for being logical and reasonable rather than simplying regurgitating scripture. I've been in this thread for 120 pages, of those 120 pages, 5 were useful because our muslim members displayed that they can use their own brains.

A lot of the time, it can be hard to debate with you guys because your beliefs are so strong that you refuse to even acknowledge our side of the argument. I have a lot of respect for muslims who can question their scripture and find answers for skeptics like me because its not easy

It is very hard to be respectful when we get called satan worshippers and told our arguements are not legitimate.

 

[Ghostaka]

Our belief does not need to be weak in order for you to understand what we say my friend. I may be inexperienced in debating but brothers Tashan and Fatihah are surely not yet we get treated the same way. That must show something about the way you (not just you) are reading our comments.

Satan is the avowed enemy of man, and tries to make you disbelieve even before understanding. That doesn't make you Satan worshipers. It is his personal mission. If you give reading with an open mind a try, (the same way you request us to question our scriptures) you'll know what I mean.

Peace be upon you (and have a great day!)

 

[kai]

It took us a long time to get here. We're only here now because some muslim members can be reasonable and recognise that we're not actually made of clay, but a derivative of clay at best.

I retain my skepticism but i can accept that it is possible that if we were created (which i do not believe we were), clay derivatives were a possible source.

However, in saying that, creation is not a very scientific observation. However, its ok to believe it.

In my opinion a lucky guess. The human body has about 60 elements in us, of which, those 60 elements make about 400,000 different soil types. Muhammed got lucky, not that it was very hard.

Hi darkendless


can you clarify this for me. so really you could say we are made of wood, clay, dust, water,stardust,a rib, in fact almost anything and find a way to say your right?

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE:darkendless]It took us a long time to get here. We're only here now because some muslim members can be reasonable and recognise that we're not actually made of clay, but a derivative of clay at best. (End quote)

Response: Well, I for one have not seen any muslim say that we are made of clay but "from" clay, which is synonomous as to saying a "derivative" of clay. Brother MFaraz has even went further to point to the verse that says we are made from an extract of clay.

Quote: darkendless
I retain my skepticism but i can accept that it is possible that if we were created (which i do not believe we were), clay derivatives were a possible source.(End quote)

Response: And you should keep your skepticism. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I encourage you to keep your skepticism, but...to have an open mind as well. We must all be skeptics when trying to learn the truth. I've always read the qur'an with skepticism and still do til this day when certain meaning is attributed or derived from trying to answer certain questions of the qur'an. But I keep an open mind. I've heard you say on several occasions that muslims don't question their religion or at least asked if they do but a muslim is not a muslim if he or she doesn't question the qur'an. Why else do you only see the muslims claiming that their holy book has no error and trying to prove it scientifically? That is because all muslims and all people are asked to challenge the qur'an and it is from these challenges that muslims draw this conclusion. It is from being a skeptic that we are able to do so but with an open mind. But it is not just being a skeptic to the qur'an my friend, but one should also be skeptic to science as well and their own logic and beliefs. So there is nothing wrong with your skepticism, except when it's one sided and not with an open mind. You should be a skeptic to science as well as your own logic and beliefs and not simply say it's true because a science book says so. A true skeptic would say,"well how do I know that the info in this book is true?" But the second you answer, "because scientist have said so", that's when you've opted to close the mind because surely you can see that that is not a logical answer. So be a skeptic, I encourage it, but be a skeptic to both sides my friend. And be fair an open-minded.

I'll leave you with one of my favorite hadiths:

There once was a man who disbelieved. He went around killing muslims left and right. Once he asked a muslim scholar, "am I going to go to paradise (heaven)?" The muslim said, "no", so he killed him also.

Then one day, on his way to do some more killing, he heard some muslims gathered around speaking the message of the qur'an, and for the first time, upon liking what he heard, he changed directions and went in search to learn some more....but he himself was killed in the process.

After relating this story to the prophet, the man asked, "Does he get to go to paradise (heaven) after his death?" On this, the prophet said, "yes".

Amazing. How is it that a man who killed people unjustly can be granted paradise after his death? Because he became open minded and became a skeptic to both sides my friend. That's why.

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

 

[Gharib]

In my opinion a lucky guess. The human body has about 60 elements in us, of which, those 60 elements make about 400,000 different soil types. Muhammed got lucky, not that it was very hard.

what a way to make an exit?

you know darkendless if you read the quran, you will find that Muhammed (saws) had many other "lucky" guesses, as if they were inspired by god.

another guess is that the sun burns like fire but isn't on fire,
then he also guessed that his uncle will die as a non muslim 10 years prior to his death,

i don't sopose you wan't me to keep going do you?

 

[Gharib]

Flawed logic. Anything that's good for us we're necessarily made from? Nonsense. Babies are not made out of their mother's milk but drinking her milk is good for them.

exactly my point, the child has come out of the mother, so the child feeds on the mother to get energy or nutrients to survive, just as we need clay for our bodily needs. none of you still get though. oh well.

 

[gnostic]

The body is made out of mostly oxygen, hydrogen and carbon. Most of the other elements in our body make less than half percent.

• The human body has than 0.002 percent of silicon. Really not enough to make much silicate clay molecules (SiO4).
• There are also 0.005% of iron and 0.000087% of aluminum, not enough to make iron and aluminum hydroxide clay molecules (FeAlOH).

If our body was made out of clay, we would still have more of these molecules in our body than anything else. But we don't have any of these molecules in our body.

All living matters (life-form) are carbon-based, and clay is neither carbon-based, nor living matter.

The sun, like clay, has many of the same elements as the human body.

• And yet, do you think our body is made out of sun?
• Or is the sun made out of human body?

That's sort of flawed logic that Muslims and Islam are applying. Completely without logic; nor is there an ounce of common sense. :cover:

 

[Gharib]

That's sort of flawed logic that Muslims and Islam are applying. Completely without logic; nor is there an ounce of common sense. :cover:

well if you really want to talk about logic and comon sense then let me make a start.

tell me gnostic how logical the following statements are to you:

chimps became humans
dinosaurs became birds
life just happend to come to existed and everything is perfect from it's own with no guidance
the lost goes on, do you want me to continue...........?

 

[gnostic]

well if you really want to talk about logic and comon sense then let me make a start.

tell me gnostic how logical the following statements are to you:

chimps became humans
dinosaurs became birds
life just happend to come to existed and everything is perfect from it's own with no guidance
the lost goes on, do you want me to continue...........?

Then answer the questions below:

The sun, like clay, has many of the same elements as the human body.

• And yet, do you think our body is made out of sun?
• Or is the sun made out of human body?

If God made human out of clay is true, then by Islamic logic, both of the above questions (about the sun and human body) should be true as well.

We have the same elements as the matchstick, then wouldn't it be correct to say, that we are all made out of matchsticks.

That's the sort of moronic logic that Muslims using in this topic.

There are more to clay than just their elements. And there's even far more complex elements to make a single human cell. But apparently Muslims here don't understand this. They keep talking about elements of clay without understanding how much complex a single living human cell.

This is the reason why Muslims today have no brilliant scientists, because they can't think outside-of-the-box, but in Muslims case, they can't think beyond the scripture.

You take this silly clay-made human to any biology academy around the world, and they would laugh at your lack of scientific understanding. Take this to this silly theory to any academy of geology, and they would most likely stone you for being a village idiot in geology.

 

[Gharib]

Originaly Posted by Gnostic
Then answer the questions below:


Quote:
The sun, like clay, has many of the same elements as the human body.

• And yet, do you think our body is made out of sun?
• Or is the sun made out of human body?

well i would say yes, seeing that we are apes due to having similarities with chimps, why not.

no i'm just kidding.

let me tell you something about islam.

the very first creature or the very first creation of Allah (swt) is prophet Muhammed (saws).
that is believed to be true in islam, but i have also heard something else, i have heard that Allah (swt) created everything from the light that was shining out of Muhammeds (saws) soul, but i cannot confirm that this is believed amongst muslims or that there is anything to support it, i have not come across anything that supports this claim.

so in a way everything came to existence due to a human soul, so that would kind of expalin the similarities in the sun and out body.

leaving that aside. why would we be related or connected to other things of matter just becuse they have similarities with us?

dogs have a mouth so do we, so do cats and so does every bloddy creature out there, so this reasoning of yours is completely useless in trying to prove what you are intenting to.

 

[gnostic]

Well, there are far more things in common between human and other animals than human and clay.

 

[Gharib]

Well, there are far more things in common between human and other animals than clay.

so what? just because we are created from clay or clay derivatives or what ever that doesn't mean we are clay 100%, i have a lot more things in common and way more similarities with my brother that i will ever have with dirt. but that doesn't mean that i was created out of my brother nor was he created out of me.

 

[gnostic]

so what? just because we are created from clay or clay derivatives or what ever that doesn't mean we are clay 100%, i have a lot more things in common and way more similarities with my brother that i will ever have with dirt.

You are being optimistic.

We are not even a quarter of 1 percent made out of clay.

 

[Gharib]

You are being optimistic.

We are not even a quarter of 1 percent made out of clay.

i'm laughing at you gnostic. ha ha

 

[kai]

why is it so hard to believe we are related to a Chimp, but easy to believe we are related to Clay? my mind boggles , is this auto suggestion? some kind of hysteria?AAAAAARRRRRGHHH the book says itself is true so it must be true, it must be true , repeat one thousand time it must be true ,it must be true ,it must be true------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------it must be true-----------------------------------------------------------------------it must be true ------------------------------------------------no still don't make sense

 

[TashaN]

The sun has almost every single known elements in our periodic tables, and possessed the same elements that make up clay, but does that mean the sun is made out of clay?

The sun also possessed the same elements as that of human body, but do you say that the sun is made out of human bodies?

Your arguments are deeply flawed and ignorant.

Even if the clay and human body have some of the same elements, the clay is not of organic properties. Clay don't have living cells that are essential for all living matters, including the human body.

Clay are made out of different molecules than the molecules found in the human living cells. Do you understand?

The most essential molecules of the clay is silicates (SiO4, which silicon and oxygen atoms). We don't have have any molecules in our body that resemble clay molcules (silicates), and this form of clay is the most common type.

There is another form of clay, found mostly in the tropic and semi-tropic regions, which is iron and aluminum hydroxide (FeAlOH).

We (human body) have the elements that are found in clay, but not the same molecules as found in clay. There's a huge different between elements and molecules.

There need to be right mix of atoms to form clay, and atoms need to be form in such a way, to form clay molecule (crystal). And silicon in the human body is so tiny that it could not enough to form clay.

And the human body cells are carbon-based, not silicon-based (which mean no silicate). And all life-forms (not just humans), including animals and plants, and even bacteria, are carbon-based. Oxygen and hydrogen elements are also important essence, but it is carbon that make our cells "living" organism.

Silicon, iron and aluminum are not very essential, but we have trace elements in our body. And as I said, silicon are so tiny, that it don't form clay molecules. (I hoped that you understand what a trace element means?)

Until you understand the way clay molecules and the living cells of all life-forms behave, you have no absolutely no understanding in science.

I think you skipped the verses i have posted. Maybe you need to check them back. Clay was just the beginning, then Allah created all other necessary things for us to walk alive, and that's when he put his soul in us.

 

[Gharib]

why is it so hard to believe we are related to a Chimp, but easy to believe we are related to Clay? my mind boggles , is this auto suggestion? some kind of hysteria?AAAAAARRRRRGHHH the book says itself is true so it must be true, it must be true , repeat one thousand time it must be true ,it must be true ,it must be true------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------it must be true-----------------------------------------------------------------------it must be true ------------------------------------------------no still don't make sense

why is it so hard to believe that the quran is the word of Allah (swt)

oh kai, you know i think it is the many very accurate guesses that Muhammed (saws) had that make it true. it's as if he was inspired by god. don't you recon so?

 

[gnostic]

why is it so hard to believe that the quran is the word of Allah (swt)

Think of superstition, fable, myth and fairytale. No proof, no evidence, and no existence.