darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
You've been pushing that crap for 30 pages genius. You can't back out now. Dont move the goal posts mate, thats weak.
Back up your statements.
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Quran is free of errors
- Thread starter Zhakir
- Start date
You've been pushing that crap for 30 pages genius. You can't back out now. Dont move the goal posts mate, thats weak.
Back up your statements.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
yeah because they are kids for crying out loud, what do they know?
they just accept anything you say, just as i used to from my teachers.
ok ok, just to make things interesting can you please tell them next class or tutor that cats evolved out of dogs. if they agree with you then i guess there is no much difference in between the 4 of you.
oh man please stop, why are you making me laugh out loud? ok i will stop joking around at your posts from now on.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Actually no, i wrote 6 things on the board and asked them to decide which was better. I left it up to the kids to explain their choices. I admit these kids are doing extension work, but still, theyre 7 and they display a better ability than you guys to respond to evidence.
The sad thing here is you guys probably dont read, or dont understand what i post when its something to do with science. Because you either ignore it, or do not repond directly. Its really sad, because not only do you insult science and me, you make it worse by not even wanting to learn anything.
ThereIsNoSpoon
Active Member
Of course i did.whats rather stupid is, that verse speaks direcly about the quran. did you ever think of that?
This doesnt change the problem however.
First of all you should take a look at the rules for substitution. Then you might see your error.
But if you still limited it to the quran you would even worsen the problem.
"If this Quran is not from God, then there must be many mistakes" which means that if there are no mistakes then the quran is from God. Problem: This is of course not conclusive. It is just a mere claim without any value. Nobody would accept such a claim, especially not unbelievers (who are the ones this verse speaks about) You wouldnt accept such a claim either for any other book. There is no reason given as why only this book if it had no mistakes had to be from God.
Basically it would then say:
"Didn't they read the Quran with care? If this Quran is not from God, then there must be many mistakes while this claim is logically false for any other book they read with care"The natural question would be "why that" ? No answer would be given however. Notice that the unbelievers are meant. And for them the Quran is no more than a book like others.
ThereIsNoSpoon
Active Member
You see... if the verse stated THAT, then this would be correct.
But sadly it DOESNT state that.
And the simplest way to see this is to READ the words again.
Response: So if we recap as to what just recently transpired:
When trying to demonstrate any evidence you've provided, you responded in post 1354 with, "Go through my posts, all 120, you'll find something."
Then when asked to provide any proof that anyone claims that man is made "of" clay, you respond with, "You've been pushing that crap for 30 pages genius."
Yes, one can cleary see from your responses above... you have no proof. Thank you for your cooperation.
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
OK, read this very carefully. I'm going to go through the physical properties of clay:
Natural state:
- clay is soft and mallaeble when wet
- when clay is wet it exhibits high plasticity
- clay is often hard and brittle when dry
- clay when dry is a thermal and electrical insulator
- clay is formed through the grinding and eventual breakdown of rocks
- clay is also formed by the chemical weathering, often using carbonic acids
Now tell me Fatihah, how the hell is our skin anything like this? For one, humans are not resistant to heat and fire, we don't expand significantly when wet, we do not retain a similiar chemical composition when we're put in a fire, and we're not made of ground down rocks.
Care to disagree?
Yes, if we are made of clay we would share those properties, or at least a mixture of them. Its impossible not to. Do you know what a composite material is Eselam? It is a material made stronger by utilizing the properties of another material. Steel is a composite where carbon is added to strengthen the Iron. Sure it is no longer called iron and is not a naturally occuring substance, but it still retains the properties of Iron. Its simple Eselam, we either exhibit some properties of clay or we're not clay!!!!! **** Don't make excuses for your book. If Allah says we're made of clay then why would our bodies not express the physical properties of clay? Even as a composite we would still act somewhat like clay.
I don't have to try to destroy this childish discussion. I didn't think you guys would be silly enough to try and have this discussion. A 5 year old could tell you we're not made of clay. The notion is pathetically rediculous.
We're 90% water sure (i don't actually know but ill take your word for it), but water boils and evaporates at 100 degrees celsius. Common fires burn at about 300 degrees C, so in very simple terms we evaporate. Also, our skin has a very low moisture content, so we burn.
If we were made of clay we wouldn't burn. Clay is basically small rock particles (for people who don't speak geology) and rocks do not burn, they retain their chemical structurein common fires. Now, if we were made of clay, we would not burn!!!
There we go. Please find some errors.
[QUOTE:darkendless]OK, read this very carefully. I'm going to go through the physical properties of clay:
Natural state:
- clay is soft and mallaeble when wet
- when clay is wet it exhibits high plasticity
- clay is often hard and brittle when dry
- clay when dry is a thermal and electrical insulator
- clay is formed through the grinding and eventual breakdown of rocks
- clay is also formed by the chemical weathering, often using carbonic acids
Now tell me Fatihah, how the hell is our skin anything like this? For one, humans are not resistant to heat and fire, we don't expand significantly when wet, we do not retain a similiar chemical composition when we're put in a fire, and we're not made of ground down rocks.
Care to disagree?(End quote)
Response: How many times must this same argument get debunked? Post 882 of page 89 and post 891 of page 90.
Natural state:
- clay is soft and mallaeble when wet
- when clay is wet it exhibits high plasticity
- clay is often hard and brittle when dry
- clay when dry is a thermal and electrical insulator
- clay is formed through the grinding and eventual breakdown of rocks
- clay is also formed by the chemical weathering, often using carbonic acids
Now tell me Fatihah, how the hell is our skin anything like this? For one, humans are not resistant to heat and fire, we don't expand significantly when wet, we do not retain a similiar chemical composition when we're put in a fire, and we're not made of ground down rocks.
Care to disagree?(End quote)
Response: How many times must this same argument get debunked? Post 882 of page 89 and post 891 of page 90.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
The Perennial tradition...
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
But the Qur'an doesn't say that. Stick to what it is actually saying, Fatihah. The reason Dark is "focusing" on it is because the Qur'an specifically says "clay". It doesn't say "clay and so much more". That is where you and others are inserting data to get around the idiocy (and error) of the original text.
Scientifically speaking, Yes, I agree, but the Qur'an mentions Allah, clay and water, so in reality it is the Qur'an that is leaving a lot out that Muslims are now trying desperately to insert. Face it, Muhammad didn't know any better and was simply in error. It's ok, it's what should be expected from a 7th century perspective.
I still think this is one of the stupidest things you have written, Fatihah. The simple fact is that if you were out in the cold for a long enough period, you too, would become solid as a rock. Go ahead and prove me wrong.
Yes, you have said in desperation that there are other factors, but the simple fact is that the Qur'an references only Allah, water and clay. It doesn't say anywhere that there are other factors. It wouldn't have taken much for Allah to have added, "and a whole lot more cool stuff that your morons can't possibly understand". However, the text doesn't say that, in this case.
Would you like a bigger shovel?
[QUOTE:YmirGF]But the Qur'an doesn't say that. Stick to what it is actually saying, Fatihah. The reason Dark is "focusing" on it is because the Qur'an specifically says "clay". It doesn't say "clay and so much more". That is where you and others are inserting data to get around the idiocy (and error) of the original text.(End quote)
Response: No one said that the qur'an didn't say clay so your point is irrelevant. It doesn't have to say the exact words "so much more". The fact that it actually mentions so much more is evident enough.
Quote: YmirGF
Scientifically speaking, Yes, I agree, but the Qur'an mentions Allah, clay and water, so in reality it is the Qur'an that is leaving a lot out that Muslims are now trying desperately to insert. Face it, Muhammad didn't know any better and was simply in error. It's ok, it's what should be expected from a 7th century perspective.(End Quote)
Response: I'm reading a statement. Where's the proof?
Quote: YmirGF
I still think this is one of the stupidest things you have written, Fatihah. The simple fact is that if you were out in the cold for a long enough period, you too, would become solid as a rock. Go ahead and prove me wrong.(End quote)
Response: The fact that you can't produce evidence to the contrary is proof enough as well as who's statement is actually the stupid one.
Quote: YmirGF
Yes, you have said in desperation that there are other factors, but the simple fact is that the Qur'an references only Allah, water and clay. It doesn't say anywhere that there are other factors. It wouldn't have taken much for Allah to have added, "and a whole lot more cool stuff that your morons can't possibly understand". However, the text doesn't say that, in this case.(End quote)
Response: Another statement. But yet we have no proof.
Quote: YmirGF
Would you like a bigger shovel?
Response: No one said that the qur'an didn't say clay so your point is irrelevant. It doesn't have to say the exact words "so much more". The fact that it actually mentions so much more is evident enough.
Quote: YmirGF
Scientifically speaking, Yes, I agree, but the Qur'an mentions Allah, clay and water, so in reality it is the Qur'an that is leaving a lot out that Muslims are now trying desperately to insert. Face it, Muhammad didn't know any better and was simply in error. It's ok, it's what should be expected from a 7th century perspective.(End Quote)
Response: I'm reading a statement. Where's the proof?
Quote: YmirGF
I still think this is one of the stupidest things you have written, Fatihah. The simple fact is that if you were out in the cold for a long enough period, you too, would become solid as a rock. Go ahead and prove me wrong.(End quote)
Response: The fact that you can't produce evidence to the contrary is proof enough as well as who's statement is actually the stupid one.
Quote: YmirGF
Yes, you have said in desperation that there are other factors, but the simple fact is that the Qur'an references only Allah, water and clay. It doesn't say anywhere that there are other factors. It wouldn't have taken much for Allah to have added, "and a whole lot more cool stuff that your morons can't possibly understand". However, the text doesn't say that, in this case.(End quote)
Response: Another statement. But yet we have no proof.
Quote: YmirGF
Would you like a bigger shovel?
Response: Because your posts proves to the contrary.
McBell
Unbound
that makes no sense.
Not that anyone is surprised
McBell
Unbound
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
any group that insists on innerrancy has "problems"
be they muslims, christians, pizza makers, scientists or midget dancing troupes from Ohio
Even bigger problems if they feel the need to go around telling everyone about it!
Ghostaka
Active Member
How nice of you to miss out Athiests and Agnostics.
Wait!? :areyoucra What do you do in a debate?
Peace be upon you.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
How nice of you to miss out Athiests and Agnostics.
Wait!? :areyoucra What do you do in a debate?
Peace be upon you.
Oh atheists and agnostics are in that group too
Debate?
The wise man lves free of conflict.
Ultimatly what one would do, be open....and consider all sides
and state: in my opinion, or in my belief system...
Which enables you to put forward your view point, your stance
But does not negate others....
You see Allah is merciful is he not, so be like Allah!
Ghostaka
Active Member
Humbleness and mercy are two different things.
I get your point but Allah is Perfect, people are not; put simply lol
.Peace be upon you.
