Quran Vs Bible in light of science

[Demonic Kitten]

Islam432, you don't seem to understand what's going on here. All you are doing is posting your beliefs. No amount of posting, copy/pasting, and Quran quoting is going to make us change our minds...and of course we all see that you are not going to change yours. If there is a point to this thread then please get on with it.

Also, remember to quote all of your sources.

 

[DeitySlayer]

So does it's written in all world major religion that you should follow the messenger to come
including Buddhism,Sikhism,Christianity,Judaism etc

i can quote all the scriptures and prove it to you

Seeing as Sikhism followed Islam, Muhammad could not be interpreted as a messenger 'to come'.

 

[DeitySlayer]

You also missed the point about the Qur'an saying that the stars are in the 'lowest heaven', which you interpreted as the troposphere. There are no stars in the troposphere.

 

[AxisMundi]

This is a good question , you yourself said Arabic is very complicated one words has many meanings , and you said why doesn't God stated things in simple matter??

You see if a layman/uneducated will read Quran , he will see the same verse in another way , and the same verse if an educated man reads Quran he will clearly see the scientific part mentioned in Quran...this is the beauty of Quran

And why didnt Allah said in clear and straight and clear manner? i have replied to this before

The reason why Allah Almighty might not have said it as clear and straight forward is because it would've been impossible for people back then to have accepted Islam if the Noble Quran contained "crazy" claims in it. So, while Noble Verse 27:88 did not sound crazy to Muslims 1500 years ago, it is most definitely an accurate Scientific Statement to us today.

Allah Almighty purposely made the Noble Quran for all times and all places. And He purposely DID NOT make every Noble Verse be possible for interpretation 1500 years ago. Let's look at an example:

"Over it are Nineteen. And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, 'What symbol doth God intend by this?' Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind. (The Noble Quran, 74:30-31)"

So, while the number 19 was impossible to interpret 1500 years ago in Noble Verses 74:30-31, but by the Will of Allah Almighty, it became clear to us today. The number 19 was proven to be a fundamental and very important number in the Computer technology today, and adding to that, the Noble Quran's numerical codes are all based on the number 19, which only the computer machine was able to calculate and figure out!

That is an appeal to ignorance fallacy.

Time and time again you have been shown that your "scientific miracles in the Quran" are false. Every one you have offered has been reasonably and rationally dismantled completely.

Your arguments are absolutely no better than the failed "Intelligent Design" pseudoscience Young Earth Creationists invented in an attempt to get their Creation Myth back into US public schools.

I understand perfectly why you people do this apologetic nonsence. It is a simple attempt to justify your relgiion and add a sence of validity to it, for yourselves and for prosetylization purposes.

What you do not understand is that almost everyone else sees those transperent attempts exacly for what they are, and that you Apologetics do the greatest of disservices to your religion by cheapening your own scriptures.

 

[AxisMundi]

1 out billions of muslims thats the best you could come with

almost 99% Muslim scholars agree that the verse says "egg shaped" and you bring the only one who says earth is flat

Also in same way many many Atheists have converted to islam they have agreed that this is the truth, dosent it prove it's you who has "inferior thinking"

And how about the millions who have fled screaming from Islam?

 

[David M]

Geology -Continuation

3)THE EARTH DISGORGES ITS CHARGES

When the earth is convulsed with its quaking and the earth then disgorges its charges and man asks, "What is wrong with it?", on that Day it will impart all its news. (Qur'an, 99:1-4)

The word "zilzal" in Arabic means earthquake, or tremors, and the word "athqalaha" means "charges, heavy burdens." When one considers the above verses in the light of the first meaning, it can be seen that reference is being made to an important scientific fact about earthquakes.

Surat az-Zilzal 2 mentions the earth disgorging its charges. Indeed, as a result of research in recent years, it has been realised that there are heavy metals at the centre of the Earth, and that these appear as a result of movements on the Earth's surface. According to geologists' calculations, as the Earth cooled, heavy and dense substances sank to its centre, while lighter ones rose to the surface. For that reason, the Earth's crust consists of the least heaviest substances (basalt and granite rocks), while heavy metals (nickel and iron) are found in the core. As a result, the subsurface, which consists of molten metals, is made of a material that is much heavier and denser than the surface.

During earthquakes, the heavy substances below the surface have an opportunity to rise, and the Earth thus disgorges its charges, as revealed in the Qur'an. Moreover, those regions where metal reserves are most concentrated are also those with the greatest volcanic activity. These scientific findings, which emerged only recently, and as a result of wide-ranging research, are just some of the scientific facts indicated by Allah in the Qur'an.

No. This is not what science has found, its complete garbage. Only a percentage of heavy elements sank to the core, a percentage remained in the crust and the mantle.

Volcanic material does not come from the core.

5)THE MIRACLE OF IRON Iron is one of the elements highlighted in the Qur'an. In Surat al-Hadid, meaning Iron, we are informed:

And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)
​

The word "anzalna," translated as "sent down" and used for iron in the verse, could be thought of having a metaphorical meaning to explain that iron has been given to benefit people. But, when we take into consideration the literal meaning of the word, which is, "being physically sent down from the sky," as in the case of rain and Sun rays, we realize that this verse implies a very significant scientific miracle. Because, modern astronomical findings have disclosed that the iron found in our world has come from giant stars in outer space.38 Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39
One scientific source provides the following information on this subject:

There is also evidence for older supernova events: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. An enhanced presence of this isotope in a geologic layer indicates the recent nucleosynthesis of elements nearby in space and their subsequent transport to the earth (perhaps as part of dust grains)​

Now you are just making things up. The Quran is talking about nickel-iron meteorites, a phenomenon long known and long exploited by ancient peoples.


​

 

[AxisMundi]

you need to check stats Islam is the fastest growing religion in world

Pumping out kids to be indoctrinated and participating in mass shifts of population (immigration) tends to do that.

Sorry, charlie. But your argumentum ad numerium is a fail.

 

[Islam432]

Islam432, you don't seem to understand what's going on here. All you are doing is posting your beliefs. No amount of posting, copy/pasting, and Quran quoting is going to make us change our minds...and of course we all see that you are not going to change yours. If there is a point to this thread then please get on with it.

Also, remember to quote all of your sources.

i already did that but some people insisted that i should continue

 

[Islam432]

Seeing as Sikhism followed Islam, Muhammad could not be interpreted as a messenger 'to come'.

yes exception Sikhism , but the concept of God is still the same

 

[Islam432]

That is an appeal to ignorance fallacy.

Time and time again you have been shown that your "scientific miracles in the Quran" are false. Every one you have offered has been reasonably and rationally dismantled completely.

Your arguments are absolutely no better than the failed "Intelligent Design" pseudoscience Young Earth Creationists invented in an attempt to get their Creation Myth back into US public schools.

I understand perfectly why you people do this apologetic nonsence. It is a simple attempt to justify your relgiion and add a sence of validity to it, for yourselves and for prosetylization purposes.

What you do not understand is that almost everyone else sees those transperent attempts exacly for what they are, and that you Apologetics do the greatest of disservices to your religion by cheapening your own scriptures.

and you showed your intelligent conversation , when you said the concepts of embryology was known 1400 years , how do we know , your not just a crazy old man making crazy claims about islam

 

[DeitySlayer]

You never answered my point about the stars being stated to be in the 'lowest heaven'; according to you, the troposphere.

 

[Revoltingest]

Islam432, I strongly suggest that you do more research on this connection between Islam & science. You don't make your case look good by trotting easily
refuted claims. Many posters here have a background in science, so we won't be swayed by simplistic guesses, bluffs & rationalizations. Take your time,
& work on solid examples with evidence behind them. And that numerology stuff will never go anywhere...personally, I prefer the number 10 to 19 anyway.

 

[Islam432]

Pumping out kids to be indoctrinated and participating in mass shifts of population (immigration) tends to do that.

Sorry, charlie. But your argumentum ad numerium is a fail.

Islam Attracts Converts by the Thousands (America )

Dalit villagers in Madurai to take to Islam (Tamil Nadu )

500 here convert to Islam every year (New Zealand)

17,500 of Intimor tribe come back to Islam (Madagaskar)

485 South African nationals recently embraced Islam (South Afrika)

Thirteen leaders of the Mungiki sect traveled from Kenya’s central province to Mombassa, 500 km south of Nairobi, to embrace Islam (Kenya)

424 Embrace Islam In Eight Months This Year (Brunai)

Islam taking root in Kalash valley (CHITRAL)

Muslims Report Steady Growth (America)

Muslims Report Steady Growth (America)

According to official reports, 942 foreign workers converted to Islam in the past year (Saudi Arabia)

50,000 French Accepted Islam In 50 Years: Intelligence (French)

98 embrace Islam in four months (Dubai)

14,000 of England’s ‘elite’ have already converted to Islam(England)

300,000 prisoners are currently converts to Islam (America)

Every year 20,000 Americans convert to Islam (America)

Mass conversion to Islam was reported from two villages in Haryana (New Delhi)

11,000 Germans adopted Islam last year (Germany)

The number of Germans converting to Islam is rising (Germany)

Islam is gaining most of its U.S. converts in prisons and on university campuses (America)

Estimates of conversions in the U.S. run as high as 30,000 to 50,000 each year (America)

In South Africa, many blacks convert to Islam (South Africa)

In prison religion is a hotly energizing force, and Islam is spreading swiftly, experts say (Berlin)

BOY, 5, Converts 1,000 To Islam (Kenya)

Islam finds new converts in Rwanda in wake of genocide (Africa)

Winning Converts The Old Fashioned Way (Rwanda)

Low caste Hindus 'prefer Islam' (India)

Muslims outpace Anglicans in UK (UK)

Islam First Religion in Amsterdam (Amsterdam)

Amid strife, Islam wins new converts in Mexico (Mexico)

How Islam Is Winning Black America (America)

Islam's influence in Germany grows (Germany)

In the Phillipines more than 100,000 a year convert (Pilliphines)

More and more Spanish women, are now converting to Islam. (Spain)

BBC :"Aborigins turn to Islam" (Australia)

African-Americans "have been moving more rapidly toward Islam." (America)

Women turning to Islam - Islam is growing in the west

Rank of Latinos turn to Islam are increasing (Mexico)

Hispanics turn to Islam are increasing (Mexico)

Western women are turning to Islam in rapidly increasing numbers

More in Hawaii turning to Islam (Hawaii)

Korean troops turning to Islam (Korea)

37 Korean troops convert to Islam (Korea)

More and more white men and women turning to Islam

British Catholics turning to Islam (UK)

Da'wah among troops, won 3000 convert to Islam (America)

Japanese Women turning to Islam (Japan)

Growing numbers of Mandiko converted to Islam (West Afrika)

On February 19, 1981, more than 300 families of the Palan sub caste converted to Islam (Tamil)

Catholics turn to Islam as faith conversions rise (UK)

 

[DeitySlayer]

You never answered my point about the stars being stated to be in the 'lowest heaven'; according to you, the troposphere.

 

[David M]

and you showed your intelligent conversation , when you said the concepts of embryology was known 1400 years , how do we know , your not just a crazy old man making crazy claims about islam

No he didn't.

He said the observation of miscarriages and births would provide the simplistic descriptions given in the Quran.

And the ancient Indians had a passing knowledge of embryonic development, including th concept that different features formed at different times.

What is in the Quran is no more revelatory than the writings of the indians, greeks and jews from centuries before.

 

[Islam432]

You never answered my point about the stars being stated to be in the 'lowest heaven'; according to you, the troposphere.

i said

"Allah doesn’t talk about creation of heaven or earth in this verse at all. He merely talks about creation of the things present on/in Earth when he says"

"This verse may mean that Allah made all things on earth and THEN divided the heaven into seven parts; still it is absolutely 100 % correct. This is because the atmosphere around the earth was formed AFTER earth was created."

 

[DeitySlayer]

No he didn't.

He said the observation of miscarriages and births would provide the simplistic descriptions given in the Quran.

And the ancient Indians had a passing knowledge of embryonic development, including th concept that different features formed at different times.

What is in the Quran is no more revelatory than the writings of the indians, greeks and jews from centuries before.

Don't forget Galen's writings in 150 BCE which outlined embryonic development.

 

[DeitySlayer]

i said

"Allah doesn’t talk about creation of heaven or earth in this verse at all. He merely talks about creation of the things present on/in Earth when he says"

"This verse may mean that Allah made all things on earth and THEN divided the heaven into seven parts; still it is absolutely 100 % correct. This is because the atmosphere around the earth was formed AFTER earth was created."

I was talking about this:

He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ...
And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps ... (67:3,5)

According to you the lowest heaven is the troposphere. Are there stars in the troposphere?

 

[McBell]

Islam Attracts Converts by the Thousands (America )

Dalit villagers in Madurai to take to Islam (Tamil Nadu )

500 here convert to Islam every year (New Zealand)

17,500 of Intimor tribe come back to Islam (Madagaskar)

485 South African nationals recently embraced Islam (South Afrika)

Thirteen leaders of the Mungiki sect traveled from Kenya’s central province to Mombassa, 500 km south of Nairobi, to embrace Islam (Kenya)

424 Embrace Islam In Eight Months This Year (Brunai)

Islam taking root in Kalash valley (CHITRAL)

Muslims Report Steady Growth (America)

Muslims Report Steady Growth (America)

According to official reports, 942 foreign workers converted to Islam in the past year (Saudi Arabia)

50,000 French Accepted Islam In 50 Years: Intelligence (French)

98 embrace Islam in four months (Dubai)

14,000 of England’s ‘elite’ have already converted to Islam(England)

300,000 prisoners are currently converts to Islam (America)

Every year 20,000 Americans convert to Islam (America)

Mass conversion to Islam was reported from two villages in Haryana (New Delhi)

11,000 Germans adopted Islam last year (Germany)

The number of Germans converting to Islam is rising (Germany)

Islam is gaining most of its U.S. converts in prisons and on university campuses (America)

Estimates of conversions in the U.S. run as high as 30,000 to 50,000 each year (America)

In South Africa, many blacks convert to Islam (South Africa)

In prison religion is a hotly energizing force, and Islam is spreading swiftly, experts say (Berlin)

BOY, 5, Converts 1,000 To Islam (Kenya)

Islam finds new converts in Rwanda in wake of genocide (Africa)

Winning Converts The Old Fashioned Way (Rwanda)

Low caste Hindus 'prefer Islam' (India)

Muslims outpace Anglicans in UK (UK)

Islam First Religion in Amsterdam (Amsterdam)

Amid strife, Islam wins new converts in Mexico (Mexico)

How Islam Is Winning Black America (America)

Islam's influence in Germany grows (Germany)

In the Phillipines more than 100,000 a year convert (Pilliphines)

More and more Spanish women, are now converting to Islam. (Spain)

BBC :"Aborigins turn to Islam" (Australia)

African-Americans "have been moving more rapidly toward Islam." (America)

Women turning to Islam - Islam is growing in the west

Rank of Latinos turn to Islam are increasing (Mexico)

Hispanics turn to Islam are increasing (Mexico)

Western women are turning to Islam in rapidly increasing numbers

More in Hawaii turning to Islam (Hawaii)

Korean troops turning to Islam (Korea)

37 Korean troops convert to Islam (Korea)

More and more white men and women turning to Islam

British Catholics turning to Islam (UK)

Da'wah among troops, won 3000 convert to Islam (America)

Japanese Women turning to Islam (Japan)

Growing numbers of Mandiko converted to Islam (West Afrika)

On February 19, 1981, more than 300 families of the Palan sub caste converted to Islam (Tamil)

Catholics turn to Islam as faith conversions rise (UK)

Sad when you have been reduced to the appeal to numbers fallacy.

 

[David M]

Islam Attracts Converts by the Thousands (America )

<snip>

So no actual hard data, just some anecdotes and a lot of wishful thinking.

And I hate to tell you this but having worked in 2 "islamic" countries there certainly are muslims who don't believe any more but go through the motions to avoid disapproval/persecution.