Race riots in England

[Pawpatrol]

Good for you although why choose a country that is nothing like Islam?,why not an Islamic state like Saudi Arabia,they live in the past and even have chop chop square.heads arms feet cut off,sharia huddud punishments for apostasy, revolt against the ruler, theft, highway robbery, adultery, slander, and drinking alcohol),can’t see that catching on here lol.

I would love to live in Saudi Arabia. I've been there. It's beautiful and the people are amazing. It's so refreshing to take a walk without having to see any drunks, drug addict or other low life. There's no smell of alcohol or cigarettes. The people dress in a respectable manner and everyone is very polite and considerate. The complete opposite of your average western city, you see.

I’m struggling to how free will can work with the A to Z of how to live via the Quran.

You're "struggling" you say, but you're not actually interested. The saddest kind of struggle that is.

Jahillya as described by sayyid qutb “state of domination of humans over humans, as opposed to their submission to God”,that’s where you are living

Jahiliyya literally refers to ignorance. It can refer to the time of ignorance before Islam or to the similar ignorant ideas still present today. Personally, I'm living in submission to God. That's mostly what concerns me. You can live as you like.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm very happy in my "box". There is nothing better out there — I know. The non-Muslim life is terrible. It has no meaning. It has no future. It has no limits — and limits are good. Without limits people become distracted by the multitude of their desires. But of course the worst part is that they lose their place in paradise (everyone has a place in paradise and in hellfire too).

My life as a Catholic has meaning, future, limitations, paradise, Heaven, hellfire, etc.

 

[Pawpatrol]

My life as a Catholic has meaning, future, limitations, etc.

That's good, but there's no paradise.

 

[Kathryn]

That's good, but there's no paradise.

I just amended my post to include Paradise and Heaven and hellfire too. It has all three.

 

[England my lionheart]

I would love to live in Saudi Arabia. I've been there. It's beautiful and the people are amazing. It's so refreshing to take a walk without having to see any drunks, drug addict or other low life. There's no smell of alcohol or cigarettes. The people dress in a respectable manner and everyone is very polite and considerate. The complete opposite of your average western city, you see.

Nirvana,yet you prefer here,the benefit system is generous here compared to most places,makes sense I guess,must be hard living in a society devised by humans.

You're "struggling" you say, but you're not actually interested. The saddest kind of struggle that is.

I am actually interested in ancient cultures mythologies and ideologies and how they have impacted history.

Jahiliyya literally refers to ignorance. It can refer to the time of ignorance before Islam or to the similar ignorant ideas still present today. Personally, I'm living in submission to God. That's mostly what concerns me. You can live as you like.

“Jahillyya literally refers to ignorance “,there’s irony there,around 2 billion Muslims worldwide submitting don’t get them a crust,of course we must take into consideration the different sects etc,all that submitting doesn’t appear to work very well imo.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Nirvana,yet you prefer here,the benefit system is generous here compared to most places,makes sense I guess,must be hard living in a society devised by humans.

I didn't say I prefer to live here. I said I was born here. I'm a convert.

“Jahillyya literally refers to ignorance “,there’s irony there,around 2 billion Muslims worldwide submitting don’t get them a crust,of course we must take into consideration the different sects etc,all that submitting doesn’t appear to work very well imo.

A crust? As in some payment or what? What do sects have to do with anything? Imo, your level of understanding of the topic is below the level where it can be properly discussed with you.

But the condescending tone and disrespectful attitude is loud and clear.

 

[Pawpatrol]

I just amended my post to include Paradise and Heaven and hellfire too. It has all three.

That's kind of how the Bible came to be what it is today.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I didn't say I prefer to live here. I said I was born here. I'm a convert..

Same here .. but many Muslims were born here, and not converts. (my children included)

I wonder what the pagans thought about Christianity, when it was first introduced.
There has always been change .. but the pace of change is happening so quick these days
that it is difficult to keep our sanity.
First ships, and then planes, and now internet .. globalization is an inescapable consequence.
Praise God that he has guided us to a straight path .. without guidance, we would be lost.

 

[England my lionheart]

I didn't say I prefer to live here. I said I was born here. I'm a convert.

A crust? As in some payment or what? What do sects have to do with anything? Imo, your level of understanding of the topic is below the level where it can be properly discussed with you.

Some of the poorest nations in the world are also the most religious,all that praying and prostration go unanswered.

As for sects,In the words of your prophet:

“there will be 73 different sects and groups within Islam, and that only one of these groups will reach salvation or heaven, while the others will be destined for hell”,apparently it has a lot to do with it.

But the condescending tone and disrespectful attitude is loud and clear.

It’s nothing personal.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Some of the poorest nations in the world are also the most religious,all that praying and prostration go unanswered.

Clearly, they think otherwise.
While we all need food, clothing, shelter and so on, it should not be our purpose in life to
compete for worldly wealth and power.

We see the results of inequality in climate-change, amongst other things.

“there will be 73 different sects and groups within Islam, and that only one of these groups will reach salvation or heaven, while the others will be destined for hell”,apparently it has a lot to do with it.

Hadith does not hold the same weight as Qur'an .. there are 100's of thousands of hadith,
some being more reliable than others.
Basically, that hadith warns us against being duped by innovation, and straying from the Orthodox.

 

[oldbadger]

But being critical of mass Islamic immigration is not "islamophobic" ("islamophobic" being a dishonest term to start with).

Yes it is!
If you have a problem with immigration then it is a 'mass immigration problem'.

We went fighting in Islamic countries, needing the people's support services heavily, and then clearing off and leaving hundreds of thousands behind to face torture and death from the winners ......and then moan when they seek shelter.

We've done that too long.

 

[England my lionheart]

Clearly, they think otherwise.
While we all need food, clothing, shelter and so on, it should not be our purpose in life to
compete for worldly wealth and power.

Historically isn’t that what Islam did?.

We see the results of inequality in climate-change, amongst other things.

Surely your god could fix that.

Hadith does not hold the same weight as Qur'an .. there are 100's of thousands of hadith,
some being more reliable than others.
Basically, that hadith warns us against being duped by innovation, and straying from the Orthodox.

Which is living back in the Middle Ages,hadiths are a minefield for Muslims,we are well used to pointing out certain hadith and answered with,”it’s false” or “it has a week chain” blah blah.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Historically isn’t that what Islam did?

No .. some Muslims might have done .. humankind have a tendency towards greed.

Surely your god could fix that..

..but He has given us the responsibility .. and only intervenes when He wills.

Which is living back in the Middle Ages.

What nonsense .. I see a lot of ignorant behaviour from all 'walks of life'.. not just Muslims.
Islam and Christianity are responsible for the emergence of multiple civilizations, with
their churches and mosques.

Secular views are "riding on the back of them", and the results of the "experiment" are
not far off. World wars are inevitable .. it is our arrogance and greed that is the cause..
..and not religion.

 

[icehorse]

Yes it is!
If you have a problem with immigration then it is a 'mass immigration problem'.

We went fighting in Islamic countries, needing the people's support services heavily, and then clearing off and leaving hundreds of thousands behind to face torture and death from the winners ......and then moan when they seek shelter.

We've done that too long.

No it's not

Numbers matter, math matters. Immigration is not the same thing as mass immigration, doh!

Yes, I agree that "the west" has recently done some horrific things in the ME. And we should provide massive aid - IN PLACE - to try to make amends for those horrors. But the answer is NOT to crater our own societies, that ultimately serves no one.

 

[England my lionheart]

No .. some Muslims might have done .. humankind have a tendency towards greed.

Case in point,that’s what mummed did when he left Mecca for Yathrib/medina,caravan raids and killing 73 Jews in a land grab,it’s like two qurans,the more peaceful one in Mecca and the more forceful and violent in medina.

..but He has given us the responsibility .. and only intervenes when He wills.

Ok so give examples of when he has?.

What nonsense .. I see a lot of ignorant behaviour from all 'walks of life'.. not just Muslims.
Islam and Christianity are responsible for the emergence of multiple civilizations, with
their churches and mosques.

True,Islam and Christianity are responsible for multiple civilisations,Islam collapsed from its high tide mark and in a way so did Christianity which in the west was saved by secularism.

Secular views are "riding on the back of them", and the results of the "experiment" are
not far off. World wars are inevitable .. it is our arrogance and greed that is the cause..
..and not religion.

It’s not an experiment it’s progress.
Re lion has been a major factor for war,even today in the Kashmir,in Syria,Iran Iraq,definitely religious.

 

[icehorse]

My life as a Catholic has meaning, future, limitations, paradise, Heaven, hellfire, etc.

And @Pawpatrol -

My life without religion has meaning.

All religions borrow their morals and ethics from man made thinking. E.g., applying the Golden Rule requires no religion, it just requires a healthy respect for morals and ethics. Being charitable, compassionate, and full of awe are the same - no religion required.

And I trust people who behave well because it's the right thing to do, more than I trust people who behave well because religion is coercing them.

 

[oldbadger]

No it's not

Numbers matter, math matters. Immigration is not the same thing as mass immigration, doh!

Yes, I agree that "the west" has recently done some horrific things in the ME. And we should provide massive aid - IN PLACE - to try to make amends for those horrors. But the answer is NOT to crater our own societies, that ultimately serves no one.

How exactly do you think that we could make amends to military support workers 'in place' in the middle east and Afghanistan?
And your insulting 'doh' gets returned.

 

[oldbadger]

No it's not

Numbers matter, math matters. Immigration is not the same thing as mass immigration, doh!

Do you accept that all Muslims with British visas and passports are now British citizens?

@England my lionheart might like to answer that as well.

 

[England my lionheart]

Do you accept that all Muslims with British visas and passports are now British citizens?

@England my lionheart might like to answer that as well.

I would say yes if they’ve met the requirements for entry,to get a passport takes longer,however giving amnesty to unchecked illegal migrants is self destructive.

We need to set the bar higher here like New Zealand,I was accepted because I had a thorough police check,medical and history plus enough money to pay my way for over two years,non parents need a million nz dollars,all that makes perfect sense.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It’s not an experiment it’s progress..

That's what you perceive .. but it is not sustainable.
..but maybe you think that only certain countries should be able to live a "western lifestyle",
such as 'Make America Great Again' at everybody else's expense.

That's a recipe for disaster .. God knows better than you, but you dislike what He says, as it
doesn't suit you.

Religion..

No .. opposition to truth .. people who consider themselves superior to others, and oppress them.