Rape?

[Alceste]

Is there a similar analogy for supporters of the OP's argument that includes a human being rather than comparing it to robbing a bank?

Also, does prison rape have the same propensity to be sexualized?

It's creepy to think that to some folks my vagina is something like a car or a bag of money. It sounds like if people want a vagina badly enough, I'm basically just impeding their access to it. If that's the case, why not just steal a steak and cut a hole in it? It seems like it's essential that the hole be attached to a human being for some reason (a female in particular) but the experience and emotions of the human being are thought to be completely irrelevant. It makes no sense.

 

[Me Myself]

It's creepy to think that to some folks my vagina is something like a car or a bag of money.

Truth can be creepy.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Considering inmates dont have viagra, they are certainly being aroused.

I would assume sex to be a secondary motivation in most cases, but I cant know. An extraordinary claim, like saying it has nothing to do ever would be the one needing extraordinary evidence. do you have such? notice the requirements in bold.

I have given numerous studies that offer evidence to the contrary. That rape is motivated by power and control. Sexual urges are only ancillary, and therefore considered not what drives people to rape.

Yes, lust for money

Very funny.

 

[Me Myself]

I have given numerous studies that offer evidence to the contrary. That rape is motivated by power and control. Sexual urges are only ancillary, and therefore considered not what drives people to rape.

I havent seen one single study that has as conclussion that no case of rape ever has anything to do with a sexual urge.

I would want to see that in the conclussions of a cited study and a believable size sample. (which doesnt really exist if you want such conclussion)

A lot of people want to control other people. Rape happens only in some of those cases, so power and control cant be the only relevant motivations. Were that the case we would be having a lot more cases of rape and the victims wouldnt necessarily be of a young age (generally more sexually atractive across cultures) and general physically attractive features.

You want to put rape on a simple causal relationship. It doesnt work. Causation is generally complex.

Very funny.

I didnt got a real answer from you either

A woman maks a man have a highly thraumatic experience because she wants the money that comes from his organs.

As much as the man may be thraumatized, that was obviously not the main motivation. The money was.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's creepy to think that to some folks my vagina is something like a car or a bag of money. It sounds like if people want a vagina badly enough, I'm basically just impeding their access to it. If that's the case, why not just steal a steak and cut a hole in it? It seems like it's essential that the hole be attached to a human being for some reason (a female in particular) but the experience and emotions of the human being are thought to be completely irrelevant. It makes no sense.

Here's why it's creepy. It's because nobody is bringing up a man's mouth as an equivalent.

I'd be much more convinced if the arguments in favor of sexualized rape discussed the sexualization of prison rape, child rape, elderly rape, rape by women in their sexual prime and outstanding libidos, and same sex rape. But typically, those who favor sexualization of rape talk about out of control testosterone and erections as proof of sexual urges.

Also, it's creepy personally for me because I've been through this. I'd like to know exactly what was so sexual about me begging for the man who attacked me to stop while he was choking me and then left me for dead. I can tell anyone with an ear to listen that I know what rough sex looks like, I know what drunken come-ons looks like, I know what BDSM looks like. The difference between all these and when I was raped was nowhere during the sexual experience or denial was I ever in a position where I thought I was going to die or be mutilated. It was much different when I was violently assaulted, and gasping for breath while I was being raped.

 

[Alceste]

Truth can be creepy.

I don't believe that is true. I think it matters to a rapist that the vagina is part of a living, breathing, suffering woman. I think it matters quite a lot, and psychological studies of convicted rapists agree.

Pedophiles are the exception to the general rule. They tend to sincerely believe they are having consensual, healthy sexual relationships that are simply misunderstood.

 

[Me Myself]

Here's why it's creepy. It's because nobody is bringing up a man's mouth as an equivalent.

I'd be much more convinced if the arguments in favor of sexualized rape discussed the sexualization of prison rape, child rape, elderly rape, rape by women in their sexual prime and outstanding libidos, and same sex rape. But typically, those who favor sexualization of rape talk about out of control testosterone and erections as proof of sexual urges.

But you did and I said it very well may be sexual too. Its not about "sexualisation" or rape. Its about pretending it is not sexualise. If it doesnt include sexuality, it is not rape , but other form of violence.

The reality is that most sexual victims are women in the age they are generally more actractive for most people and whose general characteristics would put them on "attractive" side of the selection. Why would this be a coincidence? Reality is that without sexual urge, there are MANY ways in which on can exhert control above another human being.

Also, it's creepy personally for me because I've been through this. I'd like to know exactly what was so sexual about me begging for the man who attacked me to stop while he was choking me and then left me for dead. I can tell anyone with an ear to listen that I know what rough sex looks like, I know what drunken come-ons looks like, I know what BDSM looks like. The difference between all these and when I was raped was nowhere during the sexual experience or denial was I ever in a position where I thought I was going to die or be mutilated. It was much different when I was violently assaulted, and gasping for breath while I was being raped.

Spoiler: If you dont feel to discuss it, you dont have to click here.

Strong thraumatic encounters leave strong impressions, so it may come to a surprise to you that while surely many people like that which attacked you (unfortunately) exist, it would be less accurate to think everyone is eexactly the same as him, with the exact same motivations, etc.

 

[Debater Slayer]

But you are missing the point. A person without empathy is not concerned about the wellbeing of the other. While most rapists may like that the victim suffers, a psychopath may very well just want the sexual stimuli of being able to grab a real body, penetrate a real body, etc.

I dont understand why its so hard to get that some people dont give a **** : /

I mean sure, its completly alien to us, but its real. We know people completely alien to us exist , right?

Think about the women that drug men after having sex with them so to rob them of their kidneys and organs. They dont give a **** about how the person feel after it. They just want to sell an organ.

Is that a more understandable analogy?

(Reddening mine.)

And I think this right here is the main problem with the argument you're presenting: the "body" is actually an autonomous person who has the right to make decisions for themselves. That a rapist assaults another person fully knowing that said person will suffer and be traumatized because of it is why I believe that "sexual desire" on its own isn't an explanation for their behavior at all.

Have you heard of any guy who says, "Okay, I've tried but can't resist anymore. I'm going to rape someone. It's going to be enjoyable!" when they're horny?

 

[Me Myself]

I don't believe that is true. I think it matters to a rapist that the vagina is part of a living, breathing, suffering woman.

To many rapists surely. We cant say all of those matter to all of them. Necrophilia exists, Mystic just gave an example of someone who rather prefered the victim to not be breathing, why would the suffering be an exception of the exceptions?

I think it matters quite a lot, and psychological studies of convicted rapists agree.

They agree that many rapists like what you describe, no study has as conclusion that "all rapists" always, etc, etc.

Pedophiles are the exception to the general rule. They tend to sincerely believe they are having consensual, healthy sexual relationships that are simply misunderstood.

Good example.

 

[idav]

Do you think lack of sex can ever lead to rape?

Lack of sex could lead to being premature like that poor guy from the first American Pie movie.

 

[Me Myself]

(Reddening mine.)

And I think this right here is the main problem with the argument you're presenting: the "body" is actually an autonomous person who has the right to make decisions for themselves. That a rapist assaults another person fully knowing that said person will suffer and be traumatized because of it is why I believe that "sexual desire" on its own isn't an explanation for their behavior at all.

Again, why do you think that is important for every rapist?

Say Jenny has sex with Bob and drugs him. When Bob wakes up he is missing a kidney and Jenny left a note saying he needs to go to the hospital. in x hours or he will die.

Bob is thraumatized.

Do you think Jenny did this to traumathize Bob or to sell his kidney?

Have you heard of any guy who says, "Okay, I've tried but can't resist anymore. I'm going to rape someone. It's going to be enjoyable!" when they're horny?

I dont think I know of any psychopaths, and if I do, they dont seem to trust me that much.

I must be doing somthing wrong, right?

 

[Alceste]

Here's why it's creepy. It's because nobody is bringing up a man's mouth as an equivalent.

I'd be much more convinced if the arguments in favor of sexualized rape discussed the sexualization of prison rape, child rape, elderly rape, rape by women in their sexual prime and outstanding libidos, and same sex rape. But typically, those who favor sexualization of rape talk about out of control testosterone and erections as proof of sexual urges.

Also, it's creepy personally for me because I've been through this. I'd like to know exactly what was so sexual about me begging for the man who attacked me to stop while he was choking me and then left me for dead. I can tell anyone with an ear to listen that I know what rough sex looks like, I know what drunken come-ons looks like, I know what BDSM looks like. The difference between all these and when I was raped was nowhere during the sexual experience or denial was I ever in a position where I thought I was going to die or be mutilated. It was much different when I was violently assaulted, and gasping for breath while I was being raped.

* sympathy hug *

Thank heavens I've never been through anything like that. I have experienced every imaginable kind of come on though, power role playing, rough sex, etc. A lot of guys. Drunk guys, sober guys, horny guys, bored guys, infatuated guys, guys who just wanted a fling, English, Australian, French, Canadian, Irish guys... Girls too, more than a couple. This is a pretty wide sampling of humanity I've banged, with all kinds of sexual proclivities. One thing they all - ALL - had in common was that they cared whether I was into it and stopped whatever they were doing if I made it clear that I wasn't. And vice versa.

 

[Me Myself]

* sympathy hug *

Thank heavens I've never been through anything like that. I have experienced every imaginable kind of come on though, power role playing, rough sex, etc. A lot of guys. Drunk guys, sober guys, horny guys, bored guys, infatuated guys, guys who just wanted a fling, English, Australian, French, Canadian, Irish guys... Girls too, more than a couple. This is a pretty wide sampling of humanity I've banged, with all kinds of sexual proclivities. One thing they all - ALL - had in common was that they cared whether I was into it and stopped whatever they were doing if I made it clear that I wasn't. And vice versa.

Thanks god you know how to choose em.

 

[Alceste]

Thanks god you know how to choose em.

Watch your step there, bud. People don't choose to be raped, and they don't knowingly date rapists. I'm lucky. That's it. I had to run away from an Arabic dude with nefarious intentions when I was 14. If I was not so lucky I'd be sharing a personal tragedy right now, exactly like Heather. Either that or I'd be dead.

 

[Me Myself]

Watch your step there, bud. People don't choose to be raped, and they don't knowingly date rapists. I'm lucky. That's it. I had to run away from an Arabic dude with nefarious intentions when I was 14. If I was not so lucky I'd be sharing a personal tragedy right now, exactly like Heather. Either that or I'd be dead.

No one does, but some people are more skilled at judging others. Then again there is also skill on hiding one`s intentions.

 

[Alceste]

No one does, but some people are more skilled at judging others. Then again there is also skill on hiding one`s intentions.

Granted, I am not attracted to entitled, angry, misanthropic, misogynistic or misandrous people, or abusive or violent people, but in most cases you don't pick the abuser. The abuser picks you.

I quite like horny people though. Even horny people who lack sex. Oddly, they don't seem to go around raping people. Strange but true.

 

[Me Myself]

Granted, I am not attracted to entitled, angry, misanthropic, misogynistic or misandrous people, or abusive or violent people, but in most cases you don't pick the abuser. The abuser picks you.

I quite like horny people though. Even horny people who lack sex. Oddly, they don't seem to go around raping people. Strange but true.

Not the ones you`ve been with.

Thank goodness

 

[Alceste]

Not the ones you`ve been with.

Thank goodness

Nor you, I hope. Never been raped by a girl you weren't all that into, or one of your guy friends? Or a neighbour, a friend of the family? Thank goodness. You're very lucky.

 

[Me Myself]

Nor you, I hope. Never been raped by a girl you weren't all that into, or one of your guy friends? Or a neighbour, a friend of the family? Thank goodness. You're very lucky.

No, not rape. Nothing that horrible. There was a form of humilliation in high school which was pretend "sexy dance" of everyone in the class towards me util they made my table and my chair and me in it fall and then everyone laughed at it, and did so several times for the years I was there, but thank goodness that was just a game in their minds and beyond discomfort it wasnt actual gang rape.

Just a very disturbing simulation of it o.0

 

[MysticSang'ha]

* sympathy hug *

Thank heavens I've never been through anything like that. I have experienced every imaginable kind of come on though, power role playing, rough sex, etc. A lot of guys. Drunk guys, sober guys, horny guys, bored guys, infatuated guys, guys who just wanted a fling, English, Australian, French, Canadian, Irish guys... Girls too, more than a couple. This is a pretty wide sampling of humanity I've banged, with all kinds of sexual proclivities. One thing they all - ALL - had in common was that they cared whether I was into it and stopped whatever they were doing if I made it clear that I wasn't. And vice versa.

Thanks.

I have to be honest. Some of the responses I'm reading is difficult for me right now. I appreciate the understanding. Seriously.