Rape?

[Me Myself]

Look, what you're claiming is that a strong urge, like hunger, can cause a human being to go out of their way to physically assault another human being to satisfy the urge instead of just grabbing something out of the fridge. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

The only way it makes sense is if a physical assault on another human being IS the urge that the person wants to satisfy.

Thats like saying the only way a crack addict without crack would take crack that just came from someone else`s butt is that that is exactly how the crack addict likes his/her crack.

Thats just false. If they are in jail and thats the only way s/he can get it, he will accept it, even if it is less gratifying than non butt-hole crack.

Now I am using an extreme scenario with a drug that creates a plasant response in the body way stronger than sex or orgasm, but it goes on a similar way. A person that wants to play chess may play chess with herself, but that doesnt mean she wouldnt find it far more satisfying to play with someone else, she may just not have a satisfying opponent, or any opponent available for that matter.

People make due with what they have that is closer to their desires every day.

People that have sex with a doll are likely to want to have sex with a real wo/man way more, that doesnt mean they wont use the doll. The fact that those dolls sell is a good indicator (as if it wasnt obvious enough) that masturbation is not precisely completely satisfying in all ways always. People like to grab skin other than theirs, caress, glomp, etc

A person prefering consensual sex but without empathy or moral code to rstrain him/her might very well go to the "next closest thing"

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Only the lack of willpower

 

[Me Myself]

Only the lack of willpower

only? why would an asexual rape someone have anything to do with lack of willpower? did I misunderstood your point?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

only? why would an asexual rape someone have anything to do with lack of willpower? did I misunderstood your point?

I assumed the lack of sex was not meant an asexual just a virgin. Which makes sense as an asexual probably wont rape - if asexuals do exist of course

 

[Me Myself]

I assumed the lack of sex was not meant an asexual just a virgin. Which makes sense as an asexual probably wont rape - if asexuals do exist of course

I assume they do. I have an asexual friend. She certainly tried

Given that "lack of sex" ould happen with anybody, it could be anyone.

Its just that when you say "only", that causes skeptisism for me. Different humans do a lot of things and sometimes the same things for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of very different reasons.

 

[Alceste]

Thats like saying the only way a crack addict without crack would take crack that just came from someone else`s butt is that that is exactly how the crack addict likes his/her crack.

Thats just false. If they are in jail and thats the only way s/he can get it, he will accept it, even if it is less gratifying than non butt-hole crack.

Now I am using an extreme scenario with a drug that creates a plasant response in the body way stronger than sex or orgasm, but it goes on a similar way. A person that wants to play chess may play chess with herself, but that doesnt mean she wouldnt find it far more satisfying to play with someone else, she may just not have a satisfying opponent, or any opponent available for that matter.

People make due with what they have that is closer to their desires every day.

People that have sex with a doll are likely to want to have sex with a real wo/man way more, that doesnt mean they wont use the doll. The fact that those dolls sell is a good indicator (as if it wasnt obvious enough) that masturbation is not precisely completely satisfying in all ways always. People like to grab skin other than theirs, caress, glomp, etc

A person prefering consensual sex but without empathy or moral code to rstrain him/her might very well go to the "next closest thing"

You're ignoring the fact that that total relief for any sexually pent up person is only ever one lubed-up fist away. For the hungry man, there is always food in the fridge. For the crack addict, the pipe is always full.

The ONLY reason to include physical assault on ANYBODY to acquire any of these things when it is completely unnecessary to satisfy your urges is that the physical assault is really what you want, not the orgasm.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I assume they do. I have an asexual friend. She certainly tried

Given that "lack of sex" ould happen with anybody, it could be anyone.

Its just that when you say "only", that causes skeptisism for me. Different humans do a lot of things and sometimes the same things for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of very different reasons.

Well, there are many more reasons - antisocial patients, people who find it good, etc But for a "sane" person it likely is out of control

 

[Me Myself]

You're ignoring the fact that that total relief for any sexually pent up person is only ever one lubed-up fist away. For the hungry man, there is always food in the fridge. For the crack addict, the pipe is always full.

The ONLY reason to include physical assault on ANYBODY to acquire any of these things when it is completely unnecessary to satisfy your urges is that the physical assault is really what you want, not the orgasm.

Yes and no. If rape is easier and the person has no morals, it may be the way to go for sex alone. Also if it is the easiest way to have sex right now.
If two people are having sex and one withdraws consent on the middle of the act, the other may still be at it ignoring the consent withdrawal, purely out of horniness and lack of caring for the others feelings. Thus, it would be an act motivated by lust.

You also must remember that for some people it may be """necessary""" in order to reach their goal. Mind you, I am not saying the GOAL is necessary. No one dies if not satisfying sexual urge, but there may be say "Mr Smith" wants to have sex with say "lady x". Now lady x is married and would never betray her vows, but "Mr Smith" wants her above all. So he decides if she wont come to him willingly, he damn has the means to take her unwillingly.

He uses scapolamine and has his way with her. Sure, it would be far easier if she had wanted to cheat, but oh well, she wasnt, so it was the only way, and Mr Smith wasnt to let go of his desire to have sex with her for something alien to him as "morals"

 

[Willamena]

Do you think lack of sex can ever lead to rape?

No.

If they lack sex, they aren't doing it right.

 

[Me Myself]

Well, there are many more reasons - antisocial patients, people who find it good, etc But for a "sane" person it likely is out of control

Oh yes, that is the likely issue for a psychologicaly healthy person. Then again, such person is unlikely to remain psychologically halthy after the act if s/he realises what s/he has done.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You're ignoring the fact that that total relief for any sexually pent up person is only ever one lubed-up fist away. For the hungry man, there is always food in the fridge. For the crack addict, the pipe is always full.

The ONLY reason to include physical assault on ANYBODY to acquire any of these things when it is completely unnecessary to satisfy your urges is that the physical assault is really what you want, not the orgasm.

You know, it's really easy to assume that uncontrolled sexual urges can contribute to rape when the other person is objectified like a refrigerator or a crack pipe.

People tend to forget that there is a human being that is assaulted in a rape. It's more than disturbing to hear arguments for rape having anything to do with sexual urges when an entire human being on the other end is forgotten and overlooked.

Look, this isn't just about male rape on women. This is prison rape. Child rape. Elderly rape. This insistence on focusing on males ages 15-25 as having any significant "out" in the case of rape because they have surging testosterone is opening the door to justification, victim blaming, and abdicating responsibility on the part of the criminal.

We tend not to equate the super-charged libido of women around 30-35 and up as a possibility of her raping somebody. I wonder why that is.

 

[Me Myself]

You're ignoring the fact that that total relief for any sexually pent up person is only ever one lubed-up fist away. For the hungry man, there is always food in the fridge. For the crack addict, the pipe is always full.

The ONLY reason to include physical assault on ANYBODY to acquire any of these things when it is completely unnecessary to satisfy your urges is that the physical assault is really what you want, not the orgasm.

My apologies, I read you wrong the first time, now to what you really meant:

Did you missed my example of the doll users? that argument is the equivalent of saying that the woman playing chess with herself wouldnt be more content playing with another human being who was a challenging opponent. Or that the person masturbating isnt doing so because s/he has been unable to find a partner but because s/he prefered masturbation rather than sex with another human being (which while may very well be the case sometimes, I think most people have many times they would rather sex, but had no means to)


WHy are you being so narrow minded? Its like if you could only imagine like, three bobs.

There is 7 billion human beings in this world just today and cant imagine how much on all history. Why do you think you can imagine the "Only" possible motivation for something ever?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No.

If someone lacks sex, they aren't doing it right.

Well, yeah.

But again, we'll hear the usual arguments stemming from "sex" is a part of "sexual assault", so "sex" is certainly linked to "assault." Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[Alceste]

Yes and no. If rape is easier and the person has no morals, it may be the way to go for sex alone. Also if it is the easiest way to have sex right now.
If two people are having sex and one withdraws consent on the middle of the act, the other may still be at it ignoring the consent withdrawal, purely out of horniness and lack of caring for the others feelings. Thus, it would be an act motivated by lust.

You also must remember that for some people it may be """necessary""" in order to reach their goal. Mind you, I am not saying the GOAL is necessary. No one dies if not satisfying sexual urge, but there may be say "Mr Smith" wants to have sex with say "lady x". Now lady x is married and would never betray her vows, but "Mr Smith" wants her above all. So he decides if she wont come to him willingly, he damn has the means to take her unwillingly.

He uses scapolamine and has his way with her. Sure, it would be far easier if she had wanted to cheat, but oh well, she wasnt, so it was the only way, and Mr Smith wasnt to let go of his desire to have sex with her for something alien to him as "morals"

No, that's not how it works. People who are obsessed with you don't suddenly turn into rapists as soon as you turn them down. That's ridiculous.

Look, I've probably got a lot more experience turning guys down for sex than you do. What almost always happens is, they go "Oh, she's not interested" and move on to find a potential consensual sexual experience with some other woman. Sometimes they get peevish and irritable about being rejected, but even those ones don't suddenly rape you.

Sometimes they're really, really into you, and you're the only person they really want to have sex with. When you turn them down, they're sad and sometimes incredulous (when we're infatuated with someone, we almost always convince ourselves the feeling is mutual), but they don't suddenly drug and rape you.

Very occasionally, a guy who is a jerk in every aspect of his life and all his interactions with other human beings will get super drunk and crawl into your bed and start trying to have sex at you. Those ones are pretty slow to take no for an answer, but a hearty shove out of the bed and a few choice words usually gets your point across.

You know what all these guys have in common, apart from NOT suddenly becoming rapists as soon as you say no? They all go home for a wank if they can't find a willing partner for consensual sex.

 

[Me Myself]

You know, it's really easy to assume that uncontrolled sexual urges can contribute to rape when the other person is objectified like a refrigerator or a crack pipe.

Actually, thats exactly it. The only moment when sexual urge would be enough is when the person ACTUALLY objectifies it`s prey. (doesnt care about his/her feelings)

But then again, that is what I am saying.

 

[Me Myself]

No, that's not how it works. People who are obsessed with you don't suddenly turn into rapists as soon as you turn them down. That's ridiculous.

Most of them dont. Again, this is because most of them are disuaded by their morals, empathy or fear from legal repercusions.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Actually, thats exactly it. The only moment when sexual urge would be enough is when the person ACTUALLY objectifies it`s prey. (doesnt care about his/her feelings)

But then again, that is what I am saying.

Then why does sexual desire even matter here? You've said yourself that it's present in people who don't rape others, so obviously there are other elements which lead to rape that have nothing to do with libido.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Actually, thats exactly it. The only moment when sexual urge would be enough is when the person ACTUALLY objectifies it`s prey. (doesnt care about his/her feelings)

But then again, that is what I am saying.

Uh-huh. People don't call that sexual urges. They call that sociopathic. They truly are mutually exclusive. Think on that for a bit.

Seriously.

 

[Me Myself]

Why are most of you acting as if acts had only one motivation?

You say sexual urge cant be it because you pretend everyone with sexual urge would be raping people.

Well, then anger cant be it because then everyone who is angry at yuo would rape you. Power cant be it too because then everyone who wants to exhert power over you would rape you.

I mean come on, you see how silly and narrowminded that sounds, why cant you see it when you do it?

 

[Me Myself]

Then why does sexual desire even matter here? You've said yourself that it's present in people who don't rape others, so obviously there are other elements which lead to rape that have nothing to do with libido.

Of course there are! As I said before, the sam act can be done with more than one motivation. Also, two people doing the same act can do it for very different reasons.

Why does anger even matter if most angry people dont rape other people?

Why arent people raping their bosses when they get angry at them?

I am not saying it is always the main cause, I cant know that, but I am saying it is extremely unlikely it is not a main cause for some people.