Rape?

[Alceste]

You know, it's really easy to assume that uncontrolled sexual urges can contribute to rape when the other person is objectified like a refrigerator or a crack pipe.

People tend to forget that there is a human being that is assaulted in a rape. It's more than disturbing to hear arguments for rape having anything to do with sexual urges when an entire human being on the other end is forgotten and overlooked.

Look, this isn't just about male rape on women. This is prison rape. Child rape. Elderly rape. This insistence on focusing on males ages 15-25 as having any significant "out" in the case of rape because they have surging testosterone is opening the door to justification, victim blaming, and abdicating responsibility on the part of the criminal.

We tend not to equate the super-charged libido of women around 30-35 and up as a possibility of her raping somebody. I wonder why that is.

Yeah, that creepy lack of acknowledgment that there's a PERSON being assaulted in any rape is baffling. And more than a little disturbing. Nobody is so hungry they're going to take a bite out of a living baby when there's hard boiled eggs in the fridge. Most of us have little or no desire to inflict needless pain and suffering on other human beings. If we're hungry, thirsty, in the mood for some crack, horny, etc. we usually find some way to satisfy those urges that doesn't involve inflicting needless pain and suffering on another human being.

It's more than reasonable to propose that if your process for satisfying some basic need for food, crack or sex needlessly involves violence against another human being, it's not the food, crack or sex that you really want, but the violence.

 

[Me Myself]

Uh-huh. People don't call that sexual urges. They call that sociopathic. They truly are mutually exclusive. Think on that for a bit.

Seriously.

o.o No. They are not.

Who lied to you and told you sociopaths dont have sexual urges? o.o

 

[Me Myself]

Yeah, that creepy lack of acknowledgment that there's a PERSON being assaulted in any rape is baffling.

Sociopaths dont care about other people`s feelings other than themselves. Why would it be different with sex?

 

[Alceste]

Why are most of you acting as if acts had only one motivation?

You say sexual urge cant be it because you pretend everyone with sexual urge would be raping people.

Well, then anger cant be it because then everyone who is angry at yuo would rape you. Power cant be it too because then everyone who wants to exhert power over you would rape you.

I mean come on, you see how silly and narrowminded that sounds, why cant you see it when you do it?

Are you saying that, when coupled with violent inclinations, a sociopathic nature, an entitlement mentality, objectification of women, anger, etc. a sexual urge might cause the afflicted party to rape somebody?

If so, that's what we're all saying too. Let's have a group hug. Try not to rape anyone if you get turned on by it.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Why are most of you acting as if acts had only one motivation?

You say sexual urge cant be it because you pretend everyone with sexual urge would be raping people.

Well, then anger cant be it because then everyone who is angry at yuo would rape you. Power cant be it too because then everyone who wants to exhert power over you would rape you.

I mean come on, you see how silly and narrowminded that sounds, why cant you see it when you do it?

You are confusing and conflating a human instinctual drive - specifically this drive to pair-bond and engaging with another person sexually - with a sociopathic mentality.

It is not silly or narrowminded. It's a part of ethics. We must make a clear distinction between human needs and desires and what is a violent crime.

 

[Me Myself]

Are you saying that, when coupled with violent inclinations, a sociopathic nature, an entitlement mentality, objectification of women, anger, etc. a sexual urge might cause the afflicted party to rape somebody?

If so, that's what we're all saying too. Let's have a group hug. Try not to rape anyone if you get turned on by it.

YES! That is what I have been saying!! (replacing objectification of women to objectification of victim though)

 

[Debater Slayer]

Of course there are! As I said before, the sam act can be done with more than one motivation. Also, two people doing the same act can do it for very different reasons.

Why does anger even matter if most angry people dont rape other people?

Why arent people raping their bosses when they get angry at them?

I am not saying it is always the main cause, I cant know that, but I am saying it is extremely unlikely it is not a main cause for some people.

It's not a "main cause" because there have to be other factors for someone to violently assault another person. Do you think someone who was mentally sound would go, "I need to have sex; it doesn't matter what the other person feels or if they get traumatized. I just need to have sex and I'm going to do it now"? How would someone who wasn't primarily driven by sociopathy commit such an act?

 

[Me Myself]

You are confusing and conflating a human instinctual drive - specifically this drive to pair-bond and engaging with another person sexually - with a sociopathic mentality.

It is not silly or narrowminded. It's a part of ethics. We must make a clear distinction between human needs and desires and what is a violent crime.

If we did, detectives wouldnt be able to do their jobs. We need to understand how human desires can lead to criminal acts o.o

 

[Me Myself]

It's not a "main cause" because there have to be other factors for someone to violently assault another person. Do you think someone who was mentally sound would go, "I need to have sex; it doesn't matter what the other person feels or if they get traumatized. I just need to have sex and I'm going to do it now"? How would someone who wasn't primarily driven by sociopathy commit such an act?

When have I ever said it would be mentally sound? The OP didnt ask "would a mentally sound person rape another because of sexual urge".

Did I miss thaty part somewhere? He asked if someone could rape because of that. Not if such person was moral or sane.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

o.o No. They are not.

Who lied to you and told you sociopaths dont have sexual urges? o.o

You clearly have not read my other posts when I gave the example of two people both wanting sex. One rapes, and the other doesn't. But past debates with you has shown that this is par for the course...

Look, Sociopaths have sexual urges. Those sexual urges don't make them rape. Their lack of empathy contributes to raping.

Seriously. Try and think on that.

 

[Alceste]

YES! That is what I have been saying!! (replacing objectification of women to objectification of victim though)

Sure. Objectification of the victim, violent tendencies, etc. Of course there's bound to be some element of sexual arousal in the potpourri of character defects and mental illnesses that any rapist suffers from. But it would be foolish to call it an impulsive act brought on by sudden urges. Most rapists plan their assaults long in advance.

 

[Me Myself]

You clearly have not read my other posts when I gave the example of two people both wanting sex. One rapes, and the other doesn't. But past debates with you has shown that this is par for the course...

Look, Sociopaths have sexual urges. Those sexual urges don't make them rape. Their lack of empathy contributes to raping.

Seriously. Try and think on that.

Would they rape if they had lack of empathy but no motivation to rape?

seriously, try and think on that :sarcastic

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Sure. Objectification of the victim, violent tendencies, etc. Of course there's bound to be some element of sexual arousal in the potpourri of character defects and mental illnesses that any rapist suffers from. But it would be foolish to call it an impulsive act brought on by sudden urges. Most rapists plan their assaults long in advance.

Let's see how this is argued against now. LOL

 

[Me Myself]

Sure. Objectification of the victim, violent tendencies, etc. Of course there's bound to be some element of sexual arousal in the potpourri of character defects and mental illnesses that any rapist suffers from. But it would be foolish to call it an impulsive act brought on by sudden urges. Most rapists plan their assaults long in advance.

I dont debate that they do (I dont know) but it would be silly to think no rape ever happens impulsively by strong urges.

The example of consent withdrawal would be rape and it wouldnt have been planned but a spontaneous decision to rape if the person continued after the other on withdrew consent (it would also be a sign of the person being messed up in the head, but that`s another topic)

 

[Debater Slayer]

When have I ever said it would be mentally sound? The OP didnt ask "would a mentally sound person rape another because of sexual urge".

Did I miss thaty part somewhere? He asked if someone could rape because of that. Not if such person was moral or sane.

I think there might be a miscommunication here somewhere.

1. You acknowledge that a person who rapes someone must have sociopathic tendencies, be driven by anger, sadism, or a desire to control others against their will.

2. That person, like most people, has sexual desires.

3. Therefore, their primary motivator for raping another person is the sexual desires and not their sociopathic tendencies? I honestly don't see how that follows.

To put it differently:

• A and B both have sexual desires.

• B is a sociopath while A isn't.

• B commits rape while A doesn't.

In this case, what reason is there to assume that the shared trait between the two was the main motivator for rape rather than the trait which was not shared between them?

 

[Alceste]

MYTH: Many rapes are impulsive, as when a man gets led on by short skirts or teasing behavior.

FACT: Most rapes are planned in advance.8 Interviews with convicted rapists reveal that victims are chosen for their vulnerability, not for the way they dress. 89% of the rapists describe their victims as not “sexy” at all: “The victims did not verbally provoke nor were sexually attractive to the attacker.”9 This underscores the fact that rape is about power, not sex.

Rapists are skilled at gaining victims’ trust and maneuvering them into vulnerable positions. They also work to set up an alibi in advance. So “Come in while I get my coat” translates in court to “I invited her in and she came in willingly; she knew exactly what would happen.”

Jackson County SART : Facts and Myths about Sexual Assault

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think there might be a miscommunication here somewhere.

1. You acknowledge that a person who rapes someone must have sociopathic tendencies, be driven by anger, sadism, or a desire to control others against their will.

2. That person, like most people, has sexual desires.

3. Therefore, their primary motivator for raping another person is the sexual desires and not their sociopathic tendencies? I honestly don't see how that follows.

To put it differently:

• A and B both have sexual desires.

• B is a sociopath while A isn't.

• B commits rape while A doesn't.

In this case, what reason is there to assume that the shared trait between the two was the main motivator for rape rather than the trait which was not shared between them?

:clap

Q.E.D. :yes:

 

[Me Myself]

I think there might be a miscommunication here somewhere.

1. You acknowledge that a person who rapes someone must have sociopathic tendencies, be driven by anger, sadism, or a desire to control others against their will.

2. That person, like most people, has sexual desires.

3. Therefore, their primary motivator for raping another person is the sexual desires and not their sociopathic tendencies? I honestly don't see how that follows.

To put it differently:

• A and B both have sexual desires.

• B is a sociopath while A isn't.

• B commits rape while A doesn't.

In this case, what reason is there to assume that the shared trait between the two was the main motivator for rape rather than the trait which was not shared between them?

There is no "rather". Both are causes of rape.

An asexual sociopath is unlikely to rape anyone.

The mix of sexual urge and lack of empathy might cause rape.

Other mixes are sexual urge and anger, sexual urge and hate or desire to dominate or subjugate, etc.

Now an asecual sociopath might still rape someone with a motivation of anger or some other motivation.

The thing is that sexyual urge is one of the many possible main/secondary causes of rape cases.

 

[Me Myself]

Jackson County SART : Facts and Myths about Sexual Assault

Do you understand that I am not discussing sexual urge being the only cause but one possible main cause on some scenarios? (which may very well be infrequent or very infrequent?)

 

[Alceste]

Do you understand that I am not discussing sexual urge being the only cause but one possible main cause on some scenarios? (which may very well be infrequent or very infrequent?)

And after all this time, you've still never provided any evidence at all that anybody anywhere has ever raped somebody mainly because they were super horny. Not even anecdotal evidence.

Why should I consider to your opinion when a) it is contrary to every study I'm aware of on the subject and b) you don't back it up with any evidence?