Return of Christ

[james2ko]

he returned to heaven invisibly. They were watching him disappear into a cloud and as they continued to stand looking at the 'clouds', an angel asked them why they stand looking at the clouds for Jesus?.... then the angel said "he will come in the same manner"

Hence when Jesus returns it will be in the same way.... we might as all stand looking at the 'clouds' because thats all we'll see.

If this was the only verse we had as a reference, your point would be valid. But there are way too many passages that confirm He will come (return) to the earth--in the same manner.

 

[james2ko]

Jesus is speaking as man. Notice as well, He says, <Matthew 20:23> "..who will sit on my right hand, who will sit on my left.." Hmm wait a minute, Supposedly Jesus sits 'next' to God, so how is that possible if Jesus says "My" left or right. It would seem the instance of Jesus the man sitting 'next' to God is metaphor."My" indicates Jesus is referring to Himself as God, when not in man form. His "Father" is the Deity aspect of His man incarnation. Hence the monotheism, as well, in the church doctrine.

I agree. This should not be taken literal. It is a Hebraism reflecting high positions of leadership in the Kingdom. For the Jews, it was a great mark of honour and affection; (1Ki_2:19)

 

[psychoslice]

For me personally I see the second coming in a different light, the second coming is when we finally allow the inner Christ to shine through and to live in that light. Jesus was only an example, he came the Christ, he found his true identity, his connection with the source, or the father if you prefer that title.

So the second coming is happening every day in someone's life, its here and NOW, not in the future, this is how I see the second coming.

 

[Pegg]

He will appear in the clouds and every one will supernaturally see Him. There are many passages that tell us what happens next. He will descend to the Mount of Olives and rule right here on earth from Jerusalem:

the earth is a very big place, separated by vast areas of water. Most of us dont live anywhere near jerusalem so how will his being there affect people who live on the other side of the planet?

a physical rulership? I dont think so.

The Greek word order suggests it is the Father who dwells in unapproachable light who will manifest (reveal) Christ. Kudos to the NWT translators who got the word order in vs 15 correct:

the subject is Christ, not the Father.

So you can't apply these words to the Father.

Tell me this, who appeared to Paul along the road to Damascus and how does the bible describe the appearance?



And for further evidence, look at Revelation 1:12&#8239; I turned to see who was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, 13&#8239;and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed in a garment that reached down to the feet and wearing a golden sash around his chest. 14&#8239;Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, 15&#8239;and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. 16&#8239;And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest. 17&#8239;When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet.
And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18&#8239;and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of the Grave.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest

Is this not the description of the glorified Jesus???

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Oh well. Stood up or perhaps Jesus had a flat tire on the way here and is waiting on the atrocious road service to show up.

That was kind of funny. In hell, you can be the comedian

 

[james2ko]

the earth is a very big place, separated by vast areas of water. Most of us dont live anywhere near jerusalem so how will his being there affect people who live on the other side of the planet? a physical rulership? I dont think so.

Yes it is. That is why He will return with his saints; subdue all rebellion; setup His Theocracy and give His saints rulership over cities throughout the earth (Luk 19:12-27)

Zec_14:5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You.

1Th 3:13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Oba 1:21 Then saviors shall come to Mount Zion To judge the mountains of Esau, And the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

1Co 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Psa_149:5-9 Let the saints be joyful in glory; Let them sing aloud on their beds. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, And a two-edged sword in their hand, 7 To execute vengeance on the nations, And punishments on the peoples; 8 To bind their kings with chains, And their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute on them the written judgment&#8212; This honor have all His saints. Praise the LORD!

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Psa 49:13-14 This is the way of those who are foolish, And of their posterity who approve their sayings. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; Death shall feed on them; The upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; And their beauty shall be consumed in the grave, far from their dwelling.

2Ti_2:12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

Rev 5:9-10 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

Rev 2:26-27 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations&#8212; 27 'HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON; THEY SHALL BE DASHED TO PIECES LIKE THE POTTER'S VESSELS'&#8212; as I also have received from My Father;

Psa 45:16 Instead of Your fathers shall be Your sons, Whom You shall make princes in all the earth.

Isa 32:1 Look, a righteous king is coming! And honest princes will rule under him.

Isa 30:20-21 And though the Lord gives you The bread of adversity and the water of affliction, Yet your teachers will not be moved into a corner anymore, But your eyes shall see your teachers. 21 Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, "This is the way, walk in it," Whenever you turn to the right hand Or whenever you turn to the left.​

Tell me this, who appeared to Paul along the road to Damascus and how does the bible describe the appearance?

Paul at some point saw Jesus Christ:

1Co_9:1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?​

The Being in 1 Tim 6 has never been seen. Sorry Pegg.

And for further evidence, look at Revelation 1:12&#8239; I turned to see who was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, 13&#8239;and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed in a garment that reached down to the feet and wearing a golden sash around his chest. 14&#8239;Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, 15&#8239;and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. 16&#8239;And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest. 17&#8239;When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand on me and said: &#8220;Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18&#8239;and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of the Grave. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest. Is this not the description of the glorified Jesus???

Yes it is. Notice it is not describing the same inapproachable being whom no man has seen from 1 Tim 6:16. In Revelation, John saw Him and fell at his feet and Christ laid His hand on him. So Christ was seen and approachable.

the subject is Christ, not the Father. So you can't apply these words to the Father.

The subject is the Father, Pegg. It states He is inapproachable and has never been seen. That can only be referring to the Father. I realize its tough to humble oneself and admit we are wrong, but we should all be growing in grace and knowledge.

 

[paarsurrey]

Return of Christ

It has already taken place in the symbolic form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Regards

 

[InChrist]

Return of Christ

It has already taken place in the symbolic form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Regards

I don't believe so...

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. Matthew 24:4-5

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matthew 24:23-27


Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Revelation 1:7

 

[InChrist]

For me personally I see the second coming in a different light, the second coming is when we finally allow the inner Christ to shine through and to live in that light. Jesus was only an example, he came the Christ, he found his true identity, his connection with the source, or the father if you prefer that title.

So the second coming is happening every day in someone's life, its here and NOW, not in the future, this is how I see the second coming.

That is a fascinating perspective, but It is obviously diametrically opposed to the biblical senerio and picture which is clearly presented that it is Jesus Himself who is personally the Savior and not merely an example.

 

[Pegg]

If this was the only verse we had as a reference, your point would be valid. But there are way too many passages that confirm He will come (return) to the earth--in the same manner.

yes, the same manner was 'invisibly' with the 'clouds' of heaven.

 

[Pegg]

Return of Christ

It has already taken place in the symbolic form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Regards

We take Jesus words seriously “Look out that nobody misleads you; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.” (Mt 24:4, 5,*24

 

[james2ko]

yes, the same manner was 'invisibly' with the 'clouds' of heaven.

I think I have conclusively demonstrated through many scriptures, He will return/descend from heaven in the same manner they visibly "saw" Him ascending to heaven:

Act 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched [visibly saw Him] , He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.​

They physically watched Him disappear into the heavens just as His latter day disciples will physically watch Him reappear and descend from heaven. (1 Thes 4:16; Rev 1:7). There's no way around it, Pegg. I realize it is very difficult for a pre-conditioned person to come to think differently from their long-held beliefs, especially when they are hammered with it from every side. But the proof is overwhelming and undeniable.

 

[Pegg]

I think I have conclusively demonstrated through many scriptures, He will return/descend from heaven in the same manner they visibly "saw" Him ascending to heaven:

Act 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched [visibly saw Him] , He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.​

They physically watched Him disappear into the heavens just as His latter day disciples will physically watch Him reappear and descend from heaven. (1 Thes 4:16; Rev 1:7). There's no way around it, Pegg. I realize it is very difficult for a pre-conditioned person to come to think differently from their long-held beliefs, especially when they are hammered with it from every side. But the proof is overwhelming and undeniable.

emphasis on 'Out of their sight' and 'disappear'


both meaning?

 

[savagewind]

I think I have conclusively demonstrated through many scriptures, He will return/descend from heaven in the same manner they visibly "saw" Him ascending to heaven:

Act 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched [visibly saw Him] , He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.​

They physically watched Him disappear into the heavens just as His latter day disciples will physically watch Him reappear and descend from heaven. (1 Thes 4:16; Rev 1:7). There's no way around it, Pegg. I realize it is very difficult for a pre-conditioned person to come to think differently from their long-held beliefs, especially when they are hammered with it from every side. But the proof is overwhelming and undeniable.

How will all his disciples be gathered at the same place in time for his returning? And how will they all FIT?

 

[james2ko]

How will all his disciples be gathered at the same place in time for his returning? And how will they all FIT?

already been over this. read the last few pages

 

[james2ko]

emphasis on 'Out of their sight' and 'disappear' both meaning?

Exactly what it means. Look Pegg you can split hairs with terms but the fact of the matter is there are plenty of scriptures to confirm the interpretation He will visibly return to the earth and rule with His saints.

 

[savagewind]

already been over this. read the last few pages

This?

He will appear in the clouds and every one will supernaturally see Him.

What does it mean "supernaturally"?

 

[Pegg]

Exactly what it means. Look Pegg you can split hairs with terms but the fact of the matter is there are plenty of scriptures to confirm the interpretation He will visibly return to the earth and rule with His saints.

lol, im not splitting hairs.

the expression used is 'out of their sight' and 'disappear' but you think it means 'in sight' and 'appear'

Thats the opposite of what the scriptures say happened.

 

[james2ko]

lol, im not splitting hairs.

the expression used is 'out of their sight' and 'disappear' but you think it means 'in sight' and 'appear'

Thats the opposite of what the scriptures say happened.

Act 1:9 plainly states the disciples received Him out of their sight (ophtalmos). The clear implication is they watched him go up until He disappeared in the clouds. Seriously Pegg, you are beginning to embarrass yourself.

 

[Pegg]

Act 1:9 plainly states the disciples received Him out of their sight (ophtalmos). The clear implication is they watched him go up until He disappeared in the clouds. Seriously Pegg, you are beginning to embarrass yourself.

lol, no im not embarrassed at all.