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Richard Dawkins hasn't read the Quran yet.

Khubla

Member
Hadith: the reported sayings of Mohammed recorded in six sets of books. Considered by many Muslims to be almost as important as the Quran.
 

Khubla

Member
The following excerpts were copied from Islam and Terrorism and Culture Clash, both books by Mark A. Gabriel, PhD. These books are both paperbacks and available at Amazon.com.
The Ultimate Goal of Islam---Worldwide Submission to Islam
Islam is not merely a religion where you worship God the creator. Islam is your daily life. When you accept Islam, or if you are born into Islam, every aspect of your daily life is controlled by the Islamic system. Choice is minimized. Conformity is maximized. Loyalty to Islam is reinforced from morning to night.
Democracy violates Islamic Law because it steals the right to rule away from Allah and gives it to the people.
Democracy is a system that was not created by Allah; it was created in the minds of men. Any person who tries to rule by any law other then the law of Allah is saying that the laws of Allah are not good enough. That person is a Kafir, meaning “infidel”. The Quran orders that infidels be killed
A person who follows man-made laws is nothing but a criminal and a transgressor of the law, says the Quran.
If you read the Quran cover-to-cover, you will find that 60% of it is related to the holy wars (jihad) that were led by Mohammed and his followers.
The war today is between seventh-century Islamic culture and twenty-first-century modern culture. These cultures are incompatible. They cannot coexist because the values of one violate the values of the other.
 

Khubla

Member
Lying: There is a simple Islamic proverb that says, “If you can’t cut your enemies hand, kiss it.” This is clear in the prophet Mohammed’s life and his teaching in Mecca, and after. While in Mecca and weak in numbers he was a peaceful lamb teaching love and cooperation. Once settling in Medina and raising an army he became a roaring lion that threatened the whole Arabian Desert. Those Muslims living in the United States and other western countries are in a weaken position. Muslims living here are good at presenting themselves as loving, caring, forgiving people. They compromise any conflict between the image they want to present and what they truly believe. Americans are too trusting and these people will play that weakness. No Muslim can befriend an infidel. This is taught throughout the Quran and all through Muslim schools and has severe consequences but the Muslim will pretend to be a friend when necessary, and the Quran approves of this.
In the afterlife, Allah’s wrath and torment will be on Muslims who take unbelievers as friends” Surah 5:57
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
What, the Hadiths are not part of Islam?

He said the Koran.

Tell me which hadith says if a boy caught talking with a girl then both should be killed.

FYI, Doctors and male nurses are allowed to check female patients in Muslim countries.

Also you can see in Hajj both men and women walking together.

But prostitution isn't allowed (sexual relations without marriage bonds)
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
The following excerpts were copied from Islam and Terrorism and Culture Clash, both books by Mark A. Gabriel, PhD. These books are both paperbacks and available at Amazon.com.
The Ultimate Goal of Islam---Worldwide Submission to Islam

That's not true, Islam is our relation to God ,submission to God and not to Islam, it seems that you don't even know the simple things about Islam.

Islam is not merely a religion where you worship God the creator. Islam is your daily life. When you accept Islam, or if you are born into Islam, every aspect of your daily life is controlled by the Islamic system. Choice is minimized. Conformity is maximized. Loyalty to Islam is reinforced from morning to night.

If you mean prostitution, wines, drugs yes they are minimized but Islam isn't enforced, there was always Christians , jews ,atheists ...etc living with Muslims during the Islamic empire.


Democracy violates Islamic Law because it steals the right to rule away from Allah and gives it to the people.

Democracy is a system that was not created by Allah; it was created in the minds of men. Any person who tries to rule by any law other then the law of Allah is saying that the laws of Allah are not good enough. That person is a Kafir, meaning “infidel”. The Quran orders that infidels be killed

That's ridiculous, there is no verse saying to kill infidel just because they are infidels, the prophet's uncle was an infidel and died as an infidel while the prophet was imploring him to accept Islam.

A person who follows man-made laws is nothing but a criminal and a transgressor of the law, says the Quran.

So what is God's laws and man made laws ?
would you please clarify the differences ?


If you read the Quran cover-to-cover, you will find that 60% of it is related to the holy wars (jihad) that were led by Mohammed and his followers.
The war today is between seventh-century Islamic culture and twenty-first-century modern culture. These cultures are incompatible. They cannot coexist because the values of one violate the values of the other.

Yes we have the war against AIDS in the 21st century.

Losing the War on AIDS
 

Khubla

Member
When Islamic scholars wanted to reconcile this disparity in the Quran they invented the term “Naskh”, which means that the latter revelations supersede the earlier ones. It should be considered that the earlier ones do not exist. However Islamic apologist love to quote these one hundred twenty earlier passages to naïve western media as proof that Islam is a peaceful, loving, accommodating, benign religion.
The teaching of Islam declares that all men are not created equal. The Muslim is always higher than the non-Muslim, and the man is superior to the woman. The price for a Muslim killing another Muslim is death; however under Islamic law a Muslim cannot be put to death for killing a non-Muslin, or a woman. Muslims are taught in the Quran and in school that they are superior to Westerners and other non-Muslims.
Muslim men can marry non-Muslims but Muslim women cannot
Muslims cannot adopt children or allow other to adopt them. Mohammed created this in order to marry his fifth wife.
 

Khubla

Member
Fear God wrote "So what is God's laws and man made laws ?
would you please clarify the differences "

Have you not heard of Sharia Law? Man-made or Civil laws is what all civilized countries operate under. Sharia law is the barbaric laws proscribed in the Koran. There is no other word but barbaric to describe Sharia Law so please don't act like you don't know the difference between the two.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Fear God wrote "So what is God's laws and man made laws ?
would you please clarify the differences "

Have you not heard of Sharia Law? Man-made or Civil laws is what all civilized countries operate under. Sharia law is the barbaric laws proscribed in the Koran. There is no other word but barbaric to describe Sharia Law so please don't act like you don't know the difference between the two.

I know but you don't know,

[youtube]BowX_Z09jkM[/youtube]
What is Sharia Law? - A.R. Green - YouTube
 

Khubla

Member
You deny everything as if that will change what is said and practiced in Islam. You deny what I know and have seen and what other see regarding Islam.

The verses around 9:33—the literary context—reveal an absolutist outlook, which terrorists and non-violent extremists are quick to pick up on. Because of Muhammad’s northward gaze, the polemics against Christianity becomes harsher, as seen here:

SURA 9:29 Fight [q-t-l] against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Hilali and Khan, parenthetical notes are theirs)

This verse, now famous or infamous, uses the verb qatala in its imperative form. The basic meaning of the root q-t-l signifies fighting, killing, warring and slaughtering, so Muhammad endorses violence. This verse also outlines four conditions for fighting, but we zero in on the fourth one. Muslims are commanded to fight against the Jews and Christians who do not acknowledge the religion of truth, Islam. The Christians and Jews must submit after battle or avoid battle by paying a special "protection" tax for the "privilege" of living under Islam, which was moving northward without provocation.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
I don't understand what do you think bad about Islam.

Do you mean can't see girls in bikini, can't drink wine, can't eat pork.

Is it hard to liberate ourselves from those things.

Aside from the most basic, common-sense good parts of Islamic ethics - that is in all cultures religious/philosophical traditions - I pretty much don't like the rest of what Islam is and represents or desires.

I wouldn't be part of an Islamic state or let my children be part of one.

I have read and/or own different Qur'an translations and hadith as well as talked to hundreds of Muslims from primarily Muslim nations and non-Muslim nations. I've been to a few and talked with many dangerous men who back up their world-view solidly with real Islam.

It's ignorance to think everyone who doesn't like Islam is clueless.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
"You only read one version? You can't judge this until you read all version!"
"You only read one set of documents? You can't judge this until you read all sets!"
"You only read one translation? You can't judge this until you read all translations!"
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
You deny everything as if that will change what is said and practiced in Islam. You deny what I know and have seen and what other see regarding Islam.

The verses around 9:33—the literary context—reveal an absolutist outlook, which terrorists and non-violent extremists are quick to pick up on. Because of Muhammad’s northward gaze, the polemics against Christianity becomes harsher, as seen here:

SURA 9:29 Fight [q-t-l] against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Hilali and Khan, parenthetical notes are theirs)

This verse, now famous or infamous, uses the verb qatala in its imperative form. The basic meaning of the root q-t-l signifies fighting, killing, warring and slaughtering, so Muhammad endorses violence. This verse also outlines four conditions for fighting, but we zero in on the fourth one. Muslims are commanded to fight against the Jews and Christians who do not acknowledge the religion of truth, Islam. The Christians and Jews must submit after battle or avoid battle by paying a special "protection" tax for the "privilege" of living under Islam, which was moving northward without provocation.

What the problem with taxes.

Muslims pay taxes in the form of Zakat and the others pay it in the form of Jizyah.

The same as of today.

Tell me if there is one state in the world not enforcing taxes in order to manage the state.
 

Khubla

Member
Your answers are so funny. What indeed is wrong about having to pay taxes just to live??? What happens if a Jew or Christian refuses to pay? We know the answer so no lies please.

One question I have regarding Islam, the wonderful, compassionate, loving, tolerant religion you so passionately promote. One question. What is the penalty for someone who leaves Islam and converts to another religion?
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
What the problem with taxes.

Muslims pay taxes in the form of Zakat and the others pay it in the form of Jizyah.

The same as of today.

Tell me if there is one state in the world not enforcing taxes in order to manage the state.

Jews and Christians pay Jizyah, what about other people? How would it be for all the pagans and "godless" people? Why would there even be a different kind of tax for people based on beliefs?

The answers are why most people do not like Islam without indoctrination or being forced. It isn't compatible with universal values in the present world that we share in real life. Only certain parts believed and lived by liberal Muslims trying to evolve and grow up.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Your answers are so funny. What indeed is wrong about having to pay taxes just to live??? What happens if a Jew or Christian refuses to pay? We know the answer so no lies please.

There is no lies, Muslims pay Zakat and the others pay Jizyah


One question I have regarding Islam, the wonderful, compassionate, loving, tolerant religion you so passionately promote. One question. What is the penalty for someone who leaves Islam and converts to another religion?

Show me one verse from the holy book that says who converts or leaves Islam should be killed.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Jews and Christians pay Jizyah, what about other people? How would it be for all the pagans and "godless" people? Why would there even be a different kind of tax for people based on beliefs?

The answers are why most people do not like Islam without indoctrination or being forced. It isn't compatible with universal values in the present world that we share in real life. Only certain parts believed and lived by liberal Muslims trying to evolve and grow up.

Definition of Jyziah

The jizyah tax was only for young non-Mulsim men who refused to serve in the military while living under Islamic rule. They were being protected by the military so if they refused to serve, and they had that right, they were taxed.

Reference : Interfaith Dialogue: Tax / Jizyah
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
Definition of Jyziah

The jizyah tax was only for young non-Mulsim men who refused to serve in the military while living under Islamic rule. They were being protected by the military so if they refused to serve, and they had that right, they were taxed.

Reference : Interfaith Dialogue: Tax / Jizyah

I don't know how that was dreamed up. It's not from Qur'an,*hadith, or historical sources
 
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