Richard Dawkins hasn't read the Quran yet.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is a prophet and not me, if I saw such vision for a million times I won't do it.

So what we understand from this verse, did we understand that we should kill our sons if we saw a dream.

God as a creator is showing us that he can order us to sacrifice one of whom we love, but he isn't that kind of God but he is a merciful one asking us for good deeds and not for bad ones.

That test is made for us to realize that God doesn't ask us for hardship but to do good things and he sent for us the cattles as a sacrifice instead which is a blessing of him.

Thus do We reward the good. (37:110)

So you don't think you should follow the example of the prophets?

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I'll agree with you if in a case that God let him sacrificed his own son, but he didn't.

That is the problem that we get one verse and make out of it a big issue.

Do you think such stories isn't weird even to the prophets themselves but that is indeed what had happened and then you have to think the way you wish.

You may think of it that God is awful or merciful.

For example the following verse looks weird even to the prophets themselves.

He is God, the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-mighty, the All-wise. (59:24)

How everything in earth magnifies him ?

What about the inanimate ?

The prophets know that an inanimate can't talk or think and they know that people will think that they are fooling them by saying such a thing, so why do you think there is such a verse which I think that the prophets themselves can't explain it to the believers.

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers~Quran 2:191. If that's not God demanding the sacrifice of humans, I don't know what is.

 

[FearGod]

So you don't think you should follow the example of the prophets?

No I don't have to follow everything that the prophets did.

 

[FearGod]

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers~Quran 2:191. If that's not God demanding the sacrifice of humans, I don't know what is.

What about the previous verse (2:190)

And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors. (2:190)

The verse says don't start the war but only fight if in a case that you are forced to fight.

 

[Sees]

Evil is Evil, it isn't a religion, a system or a culture.

The religion is one for one community but you can see bad and good among the same community regardless of religion.

So I don't think it is wise to accuse one community or religion as Evil.

How does it fit in that Islam is not just a religion (spirituality, philosophy, metaphysical claims) but also a political system, economic system, judicial system, etc.?

Islam tends to have an influence on world events much more than most "religions".... it is inevitable unless the world is filled with very liberal Muslims. The Qur'an is as much a Constitution as it is a religious Scripture. Political activists are practicing Islam as much as the quiet old man who simply does his prayers.

Would Dawkins or any non-Muslim here want to live in the idealized version of an Islamic nation? You don't have to read the entire Qur'an for a definitive answer.

FearGod, are you a liberal Muslim who just values and practices the philosophy and spiritual guidance or are you arguing for the totality of what Islam really is?

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

What about this verse? "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."~Quran 8:12
How exactly is hacking the heads of of people who don't believe the same thing you do an example of "self defense?"

 

[Godobeyer]

Then Dakwins belief and Dawkins books are the same. You pre-judging Dawkins books or you pre-judging Dawkins, must be the same thing too, and should be the same to you.

if his books base on prejudge religions or any issue ...etc

in that time his books is evil too .

And Dawkins is making a comment about something he's argued before in his books (because he's said these things in the past), and he's not arguing the credibility of the Qur'an.

who said he arguing credibility of Quran
its seems that you follow my words like a miror

Even if you're a good person (maybe you're an ideal person for somebody), but you can't judge if someone is supposed to prejudge anything, especially not when you're prejuding someone by saying he or she can't prejudge. It's double standard. Perhaps you don't mind keeping a double standard, but at least admit that you do. I'm okay with someone being a hypocrite, as long as they admit that they are. I know I can be a bigot at times, but I try to see it and understand why I do. Honesty to anyone starts with honesty to yourself.

for me ,any one prejudge anything is not suppose to be ideal person , or even a writer .

 

[Sees]

if his books base on prejudge religions or any issue ...etc

in that time his books is evil too .



who said he arguing credibility of Quran
its seems that you follow my words like a miror




for me ,any one prejudge anything is not suppose to be ideal person , or even a writer .

Do you think you know more about him than he knows about Islam?

 

[FearGod]

How does it fit in that Islam is not just a religion (spirituality, philosophy, metaphysical claims) but also a political system, economic system, judicial system, etc.?

Islam tends to have an influence on world events much more than most "religions".... it is inevitable unless the world is filled with very liberal Muslims. The Qur'an is as much a Constitution as it is a religious Scripture. Political activists are practicing Islam as much as the quiet old man who simply does his prayers.

Would Dawkins or any non-Muslim here want to live in the idealized version of an Islamic nation? You don't have to read the entire Qur'an for a definitive answer.

FearGod, are you a liberal Muslim who just values and practices the philosophy and spiritual guidance or are you arguing for the totality of what Islam really is?

I don't understand what do you think bad about Islam.

Do you mean can't see girls in bikini, can't drink wine, can't eat pork.

Is it hard to liberate ourselves from those things.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No I don't have to follow everything that the prophets did.

Not even obeying God?

 

[Godobeyer]

I believe I learned another important lesson about hypocrisy in this thread. The same members who blame Dawkins for prejudging Islam by not reading the Qur'an arethe same members who quote mine the Jewish Talmud every time a debate about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict arises. While they obviously have not set and read the Talmud, nor does copy pasting passages from anti-Jewish websites have anything to do with debating politics.

as i understand ,this is very important evidence that Talmud is racist!!!

I considerate this an admit to the world that Talmud is racist book , because you said mine .

if that Talmud is yours , why you angry that it's post by FearGod ?

btw ,Me who said that Dawkins is prejudgine Islam not FearGod (notice that Dawkins don't Quote from mine Quran as FearGod Quote from yours Talmud )

so i am using hypocrisy ?

 

[Godobeyer]

So if somebody knows the effects of Islam, then they understand the Quran?

don't mix between the concepts , Quran is the soul of Islam




The thread is about Dawkins' opinions about Islam. One short tweet can only give a small, imperfect glimpse into his opinion.

It's hypocritical to say that he needs to read the Quran to understand Islam, but you can understand his views from reading one 140-character tweet.[/quote]

that's the point , the thread is about Dawkins opinion about Islam , should i know his ALL his opinions about religions for exemple, or other issues , to know that he is prejudge Islam ?

 

[FearGod]

What about this verse? "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."~Quran 8:12
How exactly is hacking the heads of of people who don't believe the same thing you do an example of "self defense?"

Please read the previous verses

When you were calling upon your Lord for succour, and He answered you, I shall reinforce you with a thousand angels riding behind you. (8:9)

So God sent 1000 angels to fight with the believers, actually at those time the disbelievers were great in number and power.

God ordered the angels to fear the disbelievers and to support the believers as shown in next verses.

God wrought this not, save as good tidings and that your hearts thereby might be at rest; help comes only from God; surely God is All-mighty, All-wise. (8:10)

When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them! (8:12)

You did not slay them, but God slew them; and when thou threwest, it was not thyself that threw, but God threw, and that He might confer on the believers a fair benefit; surely God is All-hearing, All-knowing. (8:17)

 

[FearGod]

Not even obeying God?

i obey God.

But i won't kill even a cat if i saw it in a hundred of visions.

 

[Khubla]

The problem with Islam is that it hasn't gone through a reformation like Christianity has. It commands the faithful to kill all infidels and seeks world domination. Let be relate to you an event that I experienced years ago. In 1976 I spent the winter in Kabul, Afghanistan on business. I was staying at the Mustafa Hotel and one day I was chatting with the local money changer in the hotel's small restaurant. He turned to me and said "do you see that boy and girly sitting over there"? I turned and observed a young, perhaps 17 YO sharing a Coke with a young girl at a table. They were sitting across from each other, smiling and chatting as young people do. He said that if the girl's father or brother walked in and saw them together the Koran would require them to kill the boy! And they would!
With my travels in most of the Islamic countries, and 15 trips to Pakistan alone I know from experience that this religion is barbaric and doesn't fit into the 21th Century. We see this on the evening news each day.

 

[McBell]

as i understand ,this is very important evidence that Talmud is racist!!!

I considerate this an admit to the world that Talmud is racist book , because you said mine .

if that Talmud is yours , why you angry that it's post by FearGod ?

btw ,Me who said that Dawkins is prejudgine Islam not FearGod (notice that Dawkins don't Quote from mine Quran as FearGod Quote from yours Talmud )

so i am using hypocrisy ?

nope, not hypocrisy, ignorance
quote mine:

the deceitful tactic of taking quotes out of context in order to make them seemingly agree with the quote miner's viewpoint or to make the comments of an opponent seem more extreme or hold positions they don't in order to make their positions easier to refute or demonize. It's a way of lying.

SOURCE
​

 

[Sees]

The problem with Islam is that it hasn't gone through a reformation like Christianity has. It commands the faithful to kill all infidels and seeks world domination. Let be relate to you an event that I experienced years ago. In 1976 I spent the winter in Kabul, Afghanistan on business. I was staying at the Mustafa Hotel and one day I was chatting with the local money changer in the hotel's small restaurant. He turned to me and said "do you see that boy and girly sitting over there"? I turned and observed a young, perhaps 17 YO sharing a Coke with a young girl at a table. They were sitting across from each other, smiling and chatting as young people do. He said that if the girl's father or brother walked in and saw them together the Koran would require them to kill the boy! And they would!
With my travels in most of the Islamic countries, and 15 trips to Pakistan alone I know from experience that this religion is barbaric and doesn't fit into the 21th Century. We see this on the evening news each day.

This is the stuff people don't know or ignore when they say treat every religion with equal respect and tolerance. Most people completely immersed in separation from church/religion and state in the west have no idea what the opposite can be like.

 

[FearGod]

The problem with Islam is that it hasn't gone through a reformation like Christianity has. It commands the faithful to kill all infidels and seeks world domination. Let be relate to you an event that I experienced years ago. In 1976 I spent the winter in Kabul, Afghanistan on business. I was staying at the Mustafa Hotel and one day I was chatting with the local money changer in the hotel's small restaurant. He turned to me and said "do you see that boy and girly sitting over there"? I turned and observed a young, perhaps 17 YO sharing a Coke with a young girl at a table. They were sitting across from each other, smiling and chatting as young people do. He said that if the girl's father or brother walked in and saw them together the Koran would require them to kill the boy! And they would!
With my travels in most of the Islamic countries, and 15 trips to Pakistan alone I know from experience that this religion is barbaric and doesn't fit into the 21th Century. We see this on the evening news each day.

Which verse in the quran says that if a girl caught talking with a boy both should be killed.

 

[McBell]

Which verse in the quran says that if a girl caught talking with a boy both should be killed.

What, the Hadiths are not part of Islam?

 

[FearGod]

This is the stuff people don't know or ignore when they say treat every religion with equal respect and tolerance. Most people completely immersed in separation from church/religion and state in the west have no idea what the opposite can be like.

The problem that we believe a story without any evidences.

Even if there are some idiots in Kabul then why to blame religion.

I can pick many cases all around the world but still that has nothing to do with religion.