Russian chest thumping - Chinese incursions

[ImmortalFlame]

You know, on this forum, I have seen that people easily deny the evidence.

You haven't presented evidence.

In fact, you have pointedly REFUSED to present evidence.

Sealioning.

Sealioning is when you respond to a general claim with bad faith and repeated demands for evidence.

You, on the other hand, are CLAIMING to have evidence, and I am asking you for it.

That's not sealioning.

So, with all due respect, I give up with providing people with evidence.

Because you don't have any, and you were lying about it.

Example: I posted a video of Nuland saying unspeakable things against the EU, and someone said it was not even her voice.
So with these premises, I guess debating is useless.

Like I said, I caught you lying about Poroshenko before, and after that caught you lying about having classified documents that prove Putin wanted peace.

Debating is useless if one side of the debate has to resort to making stuff up and then refuses to provide evidence when they adamantly insist that they have it.

Estro, you have nothing.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Italians do make a good shotgun though.
The Benelli M4 is tough, & survives being
dropped when given up while surrendering.

That's only because they have yet to perfect the M4000; it was actually designed to fire directly at your enemies when it hits the ground after you surrender, thus creating a clever bait-and-switch.

Evidently, they got halfway and decided that was good enough.

 

[Revoltingest]

Too many obscure animal references going on.
So let's stop ducking issues by horsing around
with pigheaded weaseling about sealioning over
salt on birds' tails. We won't be cowed by your
dogged efforts to milk that tactic dry.

 

[Estro Felino]

Like I said, I caught you lying about Poroshenko before, and after that caught you lying about having classified documents that prove Putin wanted peace..

I have never lied about Poroshenko. I have a video about Poroshenko saying those words during a speech.
If he wants to explain what he meant by those words, I invite him to The Hague. Period.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Too many obscure animal references going on.
So let's stop ducking issues by horsing around
with pigheaded weaseling about sealioning over
salt on birds' tails. We won't be cowed by your
milking that tactic dry.

You're right, we otter get back to business.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I have never lied about Poroshenko. I have a video about Poroshenko saying those words during a speech.
It was not the only sentence that makes me vomit, honestly.

If he wants to explain what he meant by those words, I invite him to The Hague. Period.

What you said:

Poroshenko in 2014, public speech: We will have the pension, the Donbas Russians will not. We will have state aid, they will not. Our children will go to kindergartens, their children will be sitting inside bunkers. They are good for nothing. That's how we will win this war

What he actually said:
“This war can’t be won with weapons. Every bullet produces two enemies. And every peaceful day Ukrainian state demonstrates on the liberated territories that citizens, who sang praises to false separatist regime a month ago, receive heat, electricity, at last they can send their children to school, they started to receive pensions, survivorship and disablement payments, they have jobs, they have salaries.

“And from the other side – I have spoken by phone with a woman, the associate professor of Taras Shevchenko Luhansk University. I have asked her: “How do you spend your day?” and she has answered me: “I get up at 5 am in order to reserve a place in a queue and to get two pots of water. As we have no water. I return home at 10 am and hurry to a queue for bread. One and a half loaves of bread. Till 12 o’clock there would be no bread. I return from there and stay at home from that moment because armed men start to appear in streets from 2 pm and they could shoot everyone”.

“My dear people of Odesa! This is what we avoided thanks to your wisdom, your solidarity. And thanks to – now we all are confident about this – your pro-Ukrainian position. I was full of joy, when after visiting Odesa the delegation of the OSCE made a conclusion that Odesa is a city of harmony, the city of peace. There can’t be a better compliment. I was very happy about it. Thank you for your wisdom, people of Odesa!

“And we win together by means of peace! Because we have jobs, and they have not. We have pensions, and they have not. We have support of children and pensioners, they have not. Our children would go to kindergartens and schools, theirs would be sitting in cellars. Because they do not know anything how to do! That’s how we are going to win this war. Because wars are won in minds, and not on the combat fields! They do not know this, but I know. And I have your support, I need it very much in order we win this war without perished Ukrainians, without perished inhabitants of Odesa.”
Source: Lies: Petro Poroshenko Promised that Children from Donbas would be Sitting in Cellars

You provably lied.

 

[Estro Felino]

@ImmortalFlame

If you want some evidence, this is the video where Zakharova, spokesperson of the Russian Federal Government says that from 2014 on, Donbas civilians (unarmed) were persecuted, harassed by Ukrainian illegal militias.
It's in Italian. If you understand Italian, I can tell you the exact moment where she says that

 

[ImmortalFlame]

@ImmortalFlame

If you want some evidence, this is the video where Zakharova, spokesperson of the Russian Federal Government says that from 2014 on, Donbas civilians (unarmed) were persecuted, harassed by Ukrainian illegal militias.
It's in Italian. If you understand Italian, I can tell you the exact moment where she says that

I know about the Azov Battalion.

Do you have any evidence that this violence was either widespread or government-sanctioned?

Also, a source which isn't Russian propaganda, please.

 

[Estro Felino]

“And we win together by means of peace! Because we have jobs, and they have not. We have pensions, and they have not. We have support of children and pensioners, they have not. Our children would go to kindergartens and schools, theirs would be sitting in cellars. Because they do not know anything how to do! That’s how we are going to win this war. Because wars are won in minds, and not on the combat fields! They do not know this, but I know. And I have your support, I need it very much in order we win this war without perished Ukrainians, without perished inhabitants of Odesa.”
Source: Lies: Petro Poroshenko Promised that Children from Donbas would be Sitting in Cellars

.

I am sorry the translation is incorrect because he clearly says budut which is the future form. So it's "because we have jobs, and they will not" and so on.

And by the way...it was 2014. What war was he talking about?

 

[Estro Felino]

I know about the Azov Battalion.

Do you have any evidence that this violence was either widespread or government-sanctioned?

So the US sides with a neo-Nazi battalion?
Zakharova says she has it.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So the US sides with a neo-Nazi battalion?

Nope. No idea where you get that idea. Do you think Ukraine, a country with a Jewish leader, is a Neo-Nazi State?

Zakharova says she has it.

And where is it?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am sorry the translation is incorrect because he clearly says budut which is the future form. So it's "because we have jobs, and they will not" and so on.

And by the way...it was 2014. What war was he talking about?

I will not let you twist words any further than you already have.

I proved you lied. Accept it.

 

[Estro Felino]

I will not let you twist words any further than you already have.

I proved you lied. Accept it.

I have studied Russian and I know how to read Ukrainian. Do you?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I have studied Russian and I know how to read Ukrainian. Do you?

I don't believe a word out of your mouth, and it's irrelevant either way.

You lied. I proved you lied. Accept it.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't believe a word out of your mouth, and it's irrelevant either way.

You lied. I proved you lied. Accept it.

Everyone here knows I speak Russian, I have studied it.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Everyone here knows I speak Russian, I have studied it.

I don't care.

The point is that you lied.

 

[Father Heathen]

Created via AI.

 

[Estro Felino]

Also, a source which isn't Russian propaganda, please.

What is reliable evidence?
Sorosian media is reliable evidence?
Nuland is reliable evidence?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What is reliable evidence?
Sorosian media is reliable evidence?
Nuland is reliable evidence?

How about just evidence that isn't straight out of the mouth of someone whose actual job is to produce Russian propaganda. That would be a start.

 

[Estro Felino]

How about just evidence that isn't straight out of the mouth of someone whose actual job is to produce Russian propaganda. That would be a start.

As you don't trust Maria Zakharova or media approved of by the Kremlin,
I don't trust media approved of by Soros.

I do respect your mistrust but I expect you to respect mine.
There is also the possibility to debate civilly and to find points we can agree on.