Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Does that mean you believe there will be more revelation from God over time?
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Salvation in Christianity
- Thread starter Treasure Hunter
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Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
Yes, revelation is inexhaustible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Does that mean you don't believe that the Bible is the only Word of God?
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
How to Serve the Word in Christianity
An essential aspect of the Word has to include the way to receive the Word. If I don’t know how to receive the Word, then how can I keep and follow the Word? Holy scriptures, teachings, and rituals are in service to this task. They assist in the question of how to receive the Word. Once you...
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That did not answer my question. Do you believe that the Bible is the only Word of God?
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned in that post, the Word is distinct from scripture.
Can I ask where this line of questioning is leading? Am I on trial here?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I only go on what I have heard from Christians. Christians tell me that the Word is the Bible so that means the Word is the Bible scripture.
No, you are not on trial. I was just wondering if you believe that there has been or can be any further revelation from God aside from the Bible.
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
Well, the vast majority of Christians are part of Christian communities tied to a church right? Those communities need order and binding so as to not break down. The idea that the Bible is the only Word of God, and that the propositional beliefs associated with a particular church are right are primary parts of what binds the community together.
A community has to be at least somewhat closed and restrictive in order to maintain an identity. To the degree that the community has spiritual value, then the preservation of that community is true. That means the act of restricting and imposing beliefs has an element of truth regardless of how true the dogmas are since it maintains the static identity of the community.
In other words, the highest truth of a religious community is not truth but rather the preservation of the community. Nevertheless, it is necessary to claim that your particular community has the whole truth and nothing but the truth in order to preserve the community.
Still, Christianity is more than what is happening solely within Christian communities. The parable of the lost sheep clearly shows the privileging of the individual over the collective in the eyes of God. God doesn’t want a relationship with your community; he wants a relationship with you (through the son and the spirit of truth).
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osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Salvation is transformation of being; a totally new nature. The new nature is soul and spirit that desires only good whilst the body is spiritually reckoned dead under sin and must be brought under submission. So Christianity is a spiritual battle even after being saved; born unto good works. So the body and it's old habits are supposedly the reason a saved person can still sin or backslide. But the Bible says that the saved faithful are more than conquerors tearing down strongholds, and fighting powers and principalities by trusting solely in Jesus and faithfully doing His will. The very act of faith is a gift from God, not of the self whatsoever, only when accepted fully and wholly does it bring salvation. It's surrendering your entire life and will to God. Denying your whole life for this new life; guided by the Holy Spirit of God, not working under your own power but only by the power of God.
I made a confession of faith and then gradually became an atheist, for many, many reasons and new ones everyday.
I made a confession of faith and then gradually became an atheist, for many, many reasons and new ones everyday.
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
Yeah, so I’m speaking of the ultimate salvation, the end of the war in victory. As has been said, there are many heavens and therefore many salvations.
I agree that what you and others have described is a salvation, overcoming a battle within the war. I’m talking about the salvation associated with winning the war, which is entrance into and establishing the Kingdom on earth.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Well the kingdom of God is of the heart and spirit of God. Once saved you are forever apart of the kingdom.
But there's a whole interpretation of the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after the rapture and after the great tribulation, and Armageddon. Then after that reign, a new heavens and a new earth.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So I got my answer. Like all Christians, you believe that the Bible is the only Word of God.
So do you believe there will be no more revelations from God? By revelation I mean God speaking to a prophet/messenger and revealing more scripture.
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
I’m not part of a Christian community. I’ve already told you how it is: the Word is distinct from the Bible. The Bible can assist in developing a relationship with the Son, the Word and with the spirit of truth.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
In post #14 you said: Saved from being separated from the Kingdom. The Kingdom of God is the home to the soul. The soul desires to be reunited. The soul is lost when outside of the Kingdom.
Were you referring to the Kingdom of God on earth or the the Kingdom of God in heaven?
Do you believe that there is a the Kingdom of God on earth and also a Kingdom of God in heaven?
Which Kingdom of God is the 'home to the soul', the Kingdom of God on earth or the the Kingdom of God in heaven?
In which Kingdom do you believe you will spend eternity, the Kingdom of God on earth or the the Kingdom of God in heaven?
How and when do you think the Kingdom of God on earth is going to be established?
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
The Kingdom is with the father. The son inherits the Kingdom from the father. That is why the Christian path calls for the human individual to follow and become one with the son in order to enter into the Kingdom.
Where is the son? Where is the father? In the story, the son/father goes away (for a time) to “prepare the way” and says that he will send the spirit of truth (Holy Spirit) that will lead us into all truth. We are then to seek the spirit of truth, which will guide us (and reveal the truth related to all of your questions).
The spirit of truth takes us on a journey. I am more focused on reconnecting people with the path because any questions you have will be revealed to you in the end. The problem is that there is an enemy who opposes our relationship with the spirit of truth. This opposition is part of the journey.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So you believe that the Kingdom of God is with the Father in heaven?
Is heaven where we enter the Kingdom, or do you believe we enter the Kingdom on earth?
What story are you referring to? Is that story in the Bible? Are you referring to these verses?
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
I believe that Jesus prepared the way for the Spirit of truth while He walked the earth, and by dying on the cross. Then Jesus died and went away. Jesus went to the Father in heaven, and from heaven Jesus sent the Comforter who was also the Spirit of truth to guide us to all truth. According to my beliefs, the Comforter/Spirit of truth is a Title for the man who brings the Holy Spirit. God sent the Comforter/Holy Spirit when He sent Jesus. Then later God sent another Comforter in Jesus' name and He did everything those verses say He would do.
I also believe that the Spirit of truth takes us on a journey, a journey to find all truth. There is a lot of opposition, and much of that opposition comes from Christians who reject the Spirit of truth, since they believe it is something other than what it is.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The final battle is Armageddon. Just prior is the seven year rule of the antichrist on earth. If I'm not mistaken after 1000 year rule on earth post Armageddon Satan, who was chained for that 1000 years, will be cast into the lake of fire where death and hell shall forever remain. Then the new heavens and new earth, where eye has not seen nor any ear has heard of what the Lord has prepared for those that love him. God being infinite will dwell with his people forever and ever as the story goes.
This is all interpreted from Daniel and Revelation by Christians. The timeline is in many kjv 1611 Bibles. So no I'm not making this up.
They believe there is heavy symbolism in those prophetic books that can be interpreted to give a timeline.
So that's the final victory according to Christians.
Faith being the substance of things hoped for; such as eternal life with God, evidence of things not seen; such as the spirit realm, as it is written.
That's fundamental Christianity in a nutshell. They make it as literal as possible when they read their NT and OT.
This is all interpreted from Daniel and Revelation by Christians. The timeline is in many kjv 1611 Bibles. So no I'm not making this up.
They believe there is heavy symbolism in those prophetic books that can be interpreted to give a timeline.
So that's the final victory according to Christians.
Faith being the substance of things hoped for; such as eternal life with God, evidence of things not seen; such as the spirit realm, as it is written.
That's fundamental Christianity in a nutshell. They make it as literal as possible when they read their NT and OT.
Do you think it was Jesus' idea to be crucified as a sacrifice (much like many Middle East cultures did with animal sacrifice to the gods) so God would forgive the sins of mankind? Do you think it was necessary for a human's death before God did this?
No, they were Catholics and Lutherans like any other in the world. They also just happen to live in a nation whose government were the Nazis, and these Christians went along with crimes against humanity. Do you think these (or any kind of Christian) Christians had their salvation revoked? If so, explain where that is stated in the Bible.
Well, I guess you don't have answers after all.
Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
My sense is that you are externalizing the story entirely and merging it with human history (the human story), meaning you can say this part of the story happened at this location on this date and so on. That’s fine initially. Jesus acted out the story with this in mind.
However, the story of the Kingdom eventually has to be internalized and navigated within. The spirit of truth, for instance, is within. The soul is the child of God, so the living Son is an aspect of your soul. The entire story of the Kingdom and all of the characters are within, which means the Kingdom is within.
I made a relevant thread a short time ago about three aspects of faith, going from the external to the internal.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't think you are making it up but where do they get these ideas? You must know that all Christians don't believe the same things so that means they must be interpreting the Bible differently. Who is to say which Christians have the correct interpretation or if any of them do?