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I guess this has something to do with what Jesus said in Luke 17:
Yeah I'm aware of that. The independent Baptist's hold these beliefs.
No, I think salvation means only that person is saved from the judgment. And, then, if person is, or becomes righteous, he will get eternal life, as promised in the Bible. And eternal life goes so that when body dies, all people go to "grave", into a waiting place. And that is divided into two sections Hades and Paradise. And when the judgment day comes, all those people in there will be raised for judgement. And those who are righteous will then go into eternal life, and the others into place where soul and body are destroyed (Gehenna/hell). That is how I have understood the Bible.
For me the Bible is enough. If some Christian opinions are different than what the Bible tells, it is sad, but luckily we still have the Bible, for everyone who wants to find the truth.
Quite right .. well done Sherlock
how do you define Salvation ?Salvation did not originate in Christianity. The Greek Hellenistic religions were the original salvation religions and they occupied Israel 1 century before Christianity started.
Also savior deities, redemption fro souls getting to an afterlife, baptism, eucharist and other Christian concepts were first in Hellenism.
The Britannica entry on Hellenistic religion really illuminates what came from the Greek traditions. The dates for this movement is 300 BCE to 100 CE, so they were the originators.
Hellenistic religion | Ancient Greek Gods, Rituals & Beliefs | Britannica
Hellenistic religion, any of the various systems of beliefs and practices of eastern Mediterranean peoples from 300 bc to ad 300. The period of Hellenistic influence, when taken as a whole, constitutes one of the most creative periods in the history of religions. It was a time of spiritualwww.britannica.com
Changes that religions began taking from Hellenistic religions (this describes Judaism to Christianity exactly) - how many times is salvation mentioned.
-the seasonal drama was homologized to a soteriology (salvation concept) concerning the destiny, fortune, and salvation of the individual after death.
-his led to a change from concern for a religion of national prosperity to one for individual salvation, from focus on a particular ethnic group to concern for every human. The prophet or saviour replaced the priest and king as the chief religious figure.
-his process was carried further through the identification of the experiences of the soul that was to be saved with the vicissitudes of a divine but fallen soul, which had to be redeemed by cultic activity and divine intervention. This view is illustrated in the concept of the paradoxical figure of the saved saviour, salvator salvandus.
-Other deities, who had previously been associated with national destiny (e.g., Zeus, Yahweh, and Isis), were raised to the status of transcendent, supreme
-The temples and cult institutions of the various Hellenistic religions were repositories of the knowledge and techniques necessary for salvation and were the agents of the public worship of a particular deity. In addition, they served an important sociological role. In the new, cosmopolitan ideology that followed Alexander’s conquests, the old nationalistic and ethnic boundaries had broken down and the problem of religious and social identity had become acute.
-Most of these groups had regular meetings for a communal meal that served the dual role of sacramental participation (referring to the use of material elements believed to convey spiritual benefits among the members and with their deity)
-Hellenistic philosophy (Stoicism, Cynicism, Neo-Aristotelianism, Neo-Pythagoreanism, and Neoplatonism) provided key formulations for Jewish, Christian, and Muslim philosophy, theology, and mysticism through the 18th century
- The basic forms of worship of both the Jewish and Christian communities were heavily influenced in their formative period by Hellenistic practices, and this remains fundamentally unchanged to the present time. Finally, the central religious literature of both traditions—the Jewish Talmud (an authoritative compendium of law, lore, and interpretation), the New Testament, and the later patristic literature of the early Church Fathers—are characteristic Hellenistic documents both in form and content.
-Other traditions even more radically reinterpreted the ancient figures. The cosmic or seasonal drama was interiorized to refer to the divine soul within man that must be liberated.
-Each persisted in its native land with little perceptible change save for its becoming linked to nationalistic or messianic movements (centring on a deliverer figure)
-and apocalyptic traditions (referring to a belief in the dramatic intervention of a god in human and natural events)
- Particularly noticeable was the success of a variety of prophets, magicians, and healers—e.g., John the Baptist, Jesus, Simon Magus, Apollonius of Tyana, Alexander the Paphlagonian, and the cult of the healer Asclepius—whose preaching corresponded to the activities of various Greek and Roman philosophic missionaries
Hellenistic religion - Beliefs, practices, and institutions
All Christians, including yourself, have an interpretation. Even reading the Bible literally is an interpretation. So you can't accuse your fellow Christians of having opinions "different than what the Bible tells" assums your approach is correct. Given facts about the world that is available in the 21st century, no one can interpret the Bible at face value, literally. If that is your approach then you might believe you have found truth, but will have a huge conflict with facts and reality. So you seem to be seeking some religious "truth", not factual truth about how things are in reality. That is your inner conflict to resolve.
I found it interesting how different salvation is in Judaism to Christianity. In Judaism any ordinary person can be deemed a savior, and that means anything a person does to help another falls into that description. Judaism does not recognize the Christian savior, or the Christian definition of salvation. I can see how the Jewish idea was used as a basis for the Christ myth in that the sacrifice helps those select believers move past their sin. How Christianity evolved this idea to be literal surely has a problem in modernity.
salvation in Judaism? did that not come and go 2000 years ago
No. The Jewish idea came well before that. It is still a different definition than what Christians claim.
i am referring to the point that the messiah did come to the Jew's but they denied him
Denying the Son is part of the story. The Disciples denied him. Christians today deny him in ways they don’t realize. That’s why there is repentance and forgiveness.
Murder, rape, suicide, violence, addiction, starvation, disease, trafficking, death, suffering, division.. should I keep going?
Yeah theres some bad stuff in heaven unfortunately
I believe in the real heaven not one in the twilight zone
This ain’t heaven princess.
Much more good though