Salvation is a totally FREE GIFT: (the pearl)

[sojourner]

....is that supposed to be uffle?

God became human. the human body was killed. God lost God's humanity.

 

[Me Myself]

God became human. the human body was killed. God lost God's humanity.

I insist, is that supposed to be a great lost? I mean it´s not like he cannot have it back. Or like he didn´t himself chose the price.

 

[Shermana]

God became human. the human body was killed. God lost God's humanity.

And did he regain it when he resurrected? Did he have it again when he was sitting at the right hand of the Father?

 

[javajo]

There is no doubt there is a cost. A person will have to give up sin and there are many who don't want that. Also a person has to give up freedom. When we make Jesus Lord we become bondslaves to him.

You are confusing salvation with discipleship. Salvation is a free gift we accept just as we are. After a person is freely saved God begins the work of conforming him to his image which would include the Holy Spirit working in many areas of our lives.

 

[Shermana]

You are confusing salvation with discipleship. Salvation is a free gift we accept just as we are. After a person is freely saved God begins the work of conforming him to his image which would include the Holy Spirit working in many areas of our lives.

If Salvation was a "Free gift" then Paul wouldn't say "Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling" and James wouldn't say in regards to worksless faith "Can such faith save"? Likewise, there would be no point in "enduring until the end".

There is no verse that says "Salvation is free, just believe" unless you interpret "believe" and "faith" to not mean "Obey" and simply take it to mean "Believe Jesus died for you" without actually being obedient.

 

[javajo]

If Salvation was a "Free gift" then Paul wouldn't say "Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling" and James wouldn't say in regards to worksless faith "Can such faith save"? Likewise, there would be no point in "enduring until the end".

Paul meant for us to show forth our salvation we already possess, for it is God who is already in us and working it out. When men see our good works they will know we have been freely saved and will glorify God. Fear and trembling, used here and in other places in the Bible is a phrase which really means love and reverence. God is love and there is no fear in love, but love casts out fear. Those who fear are not made perfect in love.

One who has accepted the free gift, having placed their faith completely in Christ alone, unlike Agrippa who intellectually assented to the facts of the resurrection but did not place his trust in Christ, will produce works as evidence before men that he has trusted Christ. The phrase "enduring to the end" is in Mathew 24 and refers to believers saved during the Tribulation and refers to their physical survival of that terrible time. Its not the perseverance of the saints, rather the preservation of the saints, for it is God who does the saving (salvation is of God), and God who does the keeping:

For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 2 Tim. 1:12b

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter !:5

There is no verse that says "Salvation is free, just believe" unless you interpret "believe" and "faith" to not mean "Obey" and simply take it to mean "Believe Jesus died for you" without actually being obedient.

Salvation is a free gift, and those who have believed in Christ and accepted the free gift have obeyed God's command to believe. Then God will work in them because they are freely saved and they will become more obedient and works will follow as they grow in grace.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, Eph. 2:8-10a

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, 1 John 3:23a

 

[sojourner]

I insist, is that supposed to be a great lost? I mean it´s not like he cannot have it back. Or like he didn´t himself chose the price.

Would losing your humanity be a big loss to you and your family?

I don't see Jesus runnin' around anywhere...

He didn't. The religious authorities set the price.

 

[sojourner]

And did he regain it when he resurrected? Did he have it again when he was sitting at the right hand of the Father?

Apparently not. Human beings don't walk through solid objects, or sit in heaven.

 

[Shermana]

Salvation is not a free gift, it is something that you have to "Continue to work out with fear and trembling" or rip Philppians 2:13 out. You can't just say he meant "Continue to work out what you already completed".

The Phrase "enduring to the end" applies to all Christians at all times. Was the destruction of Jerusalem not a Tribulation? So you don't have to actually endure til the end until the Tribulation? It says that those who endure will be the ones who are saved.

When he says "Work hard to enter the Kingdom" I assume you think he meant "Just sit back and relax I got it all covered".

 

[sojourner]

Salvation is not a free gift, it is something that you have to "Continue to work out with fear and trembling" or rip Philppians 2:13 out. You can't just say he meant "Continue to work out what you already completed".

The Phrase "enduring to the end" applies to all Christians at all times. Was the destruction of Jerusalem not a Tribulation? So you don't have to actually endure til the end until the Tribulation? It says that those who endure will be the ones who are saved.

When he says "Work hard to enter the Kingdom" I assume you think he meant "Just sit back and relax I got it all covered".

Salvation is a free gift. What we have to work hard at is learning to live into being a saved people, rather than a condemned people.

 

[Jeneshisu]

From my experience as a Christian... and from my observations as a non Christian, I can confidently say that Salvation is not free. In Christianity, just accepting that it happened doesn't make you a Christian. Just believing in Christ doesn't make you a Christian. Because even Satan believes these things. To obtain salvation, there are many things that one has to sacrifice and abide by.

One doesn't just simply accept the gift of salvation and go on about his merry way.

From my standpoint, there is absolutely nothing free about it. Infact from my position, it is the exact opposite. It costs you everything. Especially seeing how the bible is laid out. The Abrahamic God is a very difficult one to please.

 

[javajo]

From my experience as a Christian... and from my observations as a non Christian, I can confidently say that Salvation is not free. In Christianity, just accepting that it happened doesn't make you a Christian. Just believing in Christ doesn't make you a Christian. Because even Satan believes these things. To obtain salvation, there are many things that one has to sacrifice and abide by.

One doesn't just simply accept the gift of salvation and go on about his merry way.

From my standpoint, there is absolutely nothing free about it. Infact from my position, it is the exact opposite. It costs you everything. Especially seeing how the bible is laid out. The Abrahamic God is a very difficult one to please.

Its like King Agrippa, he knew Christ was crucified, buried and rose again as facts yet he did not accept Christ as his Saviour. Devils believe in one God but they do not believe in him for salvation. To believe is more than knowledge that Jesus died and rose, it is that and conviction that it is true and then trusting completely in Christ for the free gift of salvation. That is belief that saves. The Bible clearly calls salvation a free gift from God. Once a person is freely saved, just as they are, God does not just leave them that way, (to go on their merry way). He begins to work in them and make them more like him. The more we yield to him and 'sacrifice' things and 'abide' by things, the more we grow. This is after salvation, not to get or keep salvation, for it is truly a gift from God to us that nobody may boast. Salvation is free, growth is not. That's my belief.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From my standpoint, there is absolutely nothing free about it. Infact from my position, it is the exact opposite. It costs you everything. Especially seeing how the bible is laid out. The Abrahamic God is a very difficult one to please.

But if they can convince you that you're entirely worthless, then even if you give up everything you are, it doesn't cost you anything of value. That makes it free... sorta.

 

[Darkness]

I am sincerely interested in learning your perspective on this javajo. If the wages of sin are death (i.e. hell for all eternity), then should not Jesus have to suffer in hell for all eternity?

 

[Shermana]

The Bible clearly calls salvation a free gift from God.

It does? Verse please. Are you referring to Romans 3:24?

King James Bible
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

That is in reference to the Sacrifice of Yashua as the Guilt Offering, it has nothing to do with not having to repent or follow the commandments. That's why Paul says what he does in the usually-skipped 3:31.

 

[Jeneshisu]

Its like King Agrippa, he knew Christ was crucified, buried and rose again as facts yet he did not accept Christ as his Saviour. Devils believe in one God but they do not believe in him for salvation. To believe is more than knowledge that Jesus died and rose, it is that and conviction that it is true and then trusting completely in Christ for the free gift of salvation. That is belief that saves. The Bible clearly calls salvation a free gift from God. Once a person is freely saved, just as they are, God does not just leave them that way, (to go on their merry way). He begins to work in them and make them more like him. The more we yield to him and 'sacrifice' things and 'abide' by things, the more we grow. This is after salvation, not to get or keep salvation, for it is truly a gift from God to us that nobody may boast. Salvation is free, growth is not. That's my belief.

In my opinion, that's just a different way of seeing the same thing. It's work. God doesn't just magically change who you are, what you think, and how you feel. There are sacrifices and temptations to endure to stay on the path.

And from my experience, it can be an incredibly miserable and painful experience. And if you go astray, you lose your salvation. That or you have to listen to other believers tell you that you never had it to begin with and your experience was not genuine and was not legitimate.

Either way, saying that it's free and simple is deception. Because that's not true about the religion at all.

 

[javajo]

In my opinion, that's just a different way of seeing the same thing. It's work. God doesn't just magically change who you are, what you think, and how you feel. There are sacrifices and temptations to endure to stay on the path.

And from my experience, it can be an incredibly miserable and painful experience. And if you go astray, you lose your salvation. That or you have to listen to other believers tell you that you never had it to begin with and your experience was not genuine and was not legitimate.

Either way, saying that it's free and simple is deception. Because that's not true about the religion at all.

I don't believe that way at all. Salvation is a free gift given to us by Jesus at great cost to him. When we 'go astray', which we all do, God does not punish us or take away his gift, he lovingly corrects us, which can be painful, but he will never cast us out. If you trusted Christ alone for salvation, then you are freely and forever saved no matter what anybody else tells you. You are his child, adopted into his family and completely and eternally saved. Jesus loves you unconditionally, all the time, no matter what, and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Jeneshisu]

So let's say that when I was 15, I was a Christian. God was my entire life up until that point when I realized all the terrible things that the religion advocated and all the terrible things that God did in the Bible. And at that moment, I left the religion, never to look back and still feel just as strongly about it 6 years later, I hope you are not trying to say that I am still "saved".

Unless you're one of those types that just believes that said person was never saved to begin with... because I already stated how I felt about that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't believe that way at all. Salvation is a free gift given to us by Jesus at great cost to him. When we 'go astray', which we all do, God does not punish us or take away his gift, he lovingly corrects us, which can be painful, but he will never cast us out.

... unless the way in which you "go astray" is losing your faith. Then you're out on your ear, right?

 

[sojourner]

So let's say that when I was 15, I was a Christian. God was my entire life up until that point when I realized all the terrible things that the religion advocated and all the terrible things that God did in the Bible. And at that moment, I left the religion, never to look back and still feel just as strongly about it 6 years later, I hope you are not trying to say that I am still "saved".

Unless you're one of those types that just believes that said person was never saved to begin with... because I already stated how I felt about that.

It doesn't matter what we think. What do you think?