Like your ^above^ post and thought it bears repeating.
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Salvation
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
- Start date
Like your ^above^ post and thought it bears repeating.
Are there bad families? Who exactly do you accuse?
What you describe is the love of the child bringing into line, not the displeasure of the father.
I surely do not know what this means.
Indeed, there are!
I am accusing those who are bad ("inadequate") families.
Would the love of the child bring its behavior into line without the father's disapproval of the behavior?
If that were the case, why does the child repeatedly engage in the unacceptable behavior after repeatedly being instructed by his father that it is unacceptable?
That's the point. . .you share the same degree of illumination.
Who measures adequacy? You are blameless then, to accuse?
Redirect, positive reinforcement. There is no need for disapproval. Children are not responsible for the emotional states of their parents.
So you are the arbitrator of good family and my degree of illumination. It doesn't seem so wise to me, just rude.
What do you think the NT says was the purpose of his sacrifice on the cross?
Do you think the NT says anything else can achieve that purpose?
It's presented a little differently in the NT.
The NT says that one's belief is demonstrated by doing the will of the Father, rather than working signs and wonders.
The NT says that working signs and wonders is not indicative of doing the Father's will, because Satan can do those things.
The NT shows that the problem there was they were attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to demons (Mt 9:34).
So by denying the work of the Holy Spirit, they were placing a bar in their own door to what the NT says is the only salvation for mankind.
They were rejecting the only remedy there is for mankind's sin--salvation, applied by the Holy Spirit, through faith in Jesus of Nazareth;
and the NT says there exists no other remedy for mankind's sin outside faith in Jesus of Nazareth, which therefore causes the wrath of God to remain on them. (Jn 3:36)
Yes, the NT often speaks of professors (not possessors) of faith in Jesus of Nazareth, as being in the kingdom, but not of the kingdom. That is the issue at stake here.
This warning in the letter to the Hebrews was to those Hebrews who were considering going back to Judaism because of the ostracization of their families.
By going back to Judaism they would be rejecting what the NT says is the only remedy for mankind's sin--faith in the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth,
and thereby would be subjecting themselves to the wrath of God.
As long as they continued in Judaism's rejection of Jesus' sacrifice as what the NT says is the only remission for mankind's sin, they were "crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace" as the murderers of Jesus had done.
Both passages--Mt 12:32 and Heb 6:4-6--are about rejecting what the NT says is the only remedy for mankind's sin, and thereby barring themselves from forgiveness (remission) of their sin, which the NT says is the meaning of salvation.
As you know, the NT puts a qualifier on that--faith in Jesus' shed blood cleanses from all sin. (Rom 3:25)
The NT says that it does not cleanse the sin of those who do not believe in and trust on what it says is the only remedy for mankind's sin--the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth to remit sin (which is the NT meaning of salvation).
The NT says that those who are excluded are all those who do not believe in and trust on the sacrifice of Jesus to remit their sin (which is the NT meaning of salvation).
The NT also says that those who are exlcuded are all those who do not obey Jesus' command, "Repent and believe. . ." (Mk 1:15)
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The law and the courts.
Gee, I wonder why more parents don't do that to keep their children from criminal behavior before the law does the job for them.
But the courts hold parents responsible for the behavior of their children.
The courts are the arbitrator of good family. . .and I apologize for the rudeness of my statement.
Unless there is some crime committed, neither law nor court need be involved.
I'm pretty sure there is no law that delineates what "good family" is.
Education, or lack of it.
I don't see how this alters the verity of what I said. Parents are responsible for the welfare of under aged children, not the other way round.
Again, in the country and state that I live in, the courts have nothing to do with a family unless the court is petitioned to get involved for whatever reason.
There are many models of family in the world just as there are many different cultures and practices.
As for rudeness, I don't take offense. The rudeness I refer to is a lack of appreciation for the fact of multicultural practices and beliefs regarding acceptable forms of family relations.
Courts deal with legal guide lines, not goodness.
By inference, any family requiring intervention by the court is not a good family.
In this country, legal guide lines set the minimum standards required for "goodness."
What of parents dying leaving minor orphans. Perhaps a family would like to adopt a child.
You believe goodness can be legislated?
Hi smokydot-
Agree. No one but Jesus can achieve that purpose [sacrifice] -1st John 1v7 B
Jesus sacrifice covers all, but all do not want to be covered by it.
So by one's rejection, Jesus sacrifice covers 'many' [not all] according to Matt 28v20.
Jesus does not do the rejecting. One chooses to walk away from him.
No. Not talking about signs and wonders [Matt chap 7]
but spiritual works [Luke 4v43] and the commission Jesus gave at Matt 24v14; 28vs19,20.
Jesus does not lie. 'Unforgivable' means: unforgivable. -Mark 3v29
God can not lie [Titus 1v2] So when God's Word [Bible] says impossible to revive it means not possible- Hebrews 6v4-6
Yes as 1st John 1v7 B agrees Jesus sacrifice is God's only remedy for mankind's sins.
Because as Mark 1v15 says the kingdom of God [Matt 24v13,14] is at hand: repent and believe the gospel or have faith in the good news; the good news of God's kingdom.
Because as Mark 13v13 says the one who endures to the end will be saved.
What are works that befit repentance? Acts 26v20 B; Rom 2v6; 1Peter 2v12;James 2v20
Agree. No one but Jesus can achieve that purpose [sacrifice] -1st John 1v7 B
Jesus sacrifice covers all, but all do not want to be covered by it.
So by one's rejection, Jesus sacrifice covers 'many' [not all] according to Matt 28v20.
Jesus does not do the rejecting. One chooses to walk away from him.
No. Not talking about signs and wonders [Matt chap 7]
but spiritual works [Luke 4v43] and the commission Jesus gave at Matt 24v14; 28vs19,20.
Jesus does not lie. 'Unforgivable' means: unforgivable. -Mark 3v29
God can not lie [Titus 1v2] So when God's Word [Bible] says impossible to revive it means not possible- Hebrews 6v4-6
Yes as 1st John 1v7 B agrees Jesus sacrifice is God's only remedy for mankind's sins.
Because as Mark 1v15 says the kingdom of God [Matt 24v13,14] is at hand: repent and believe the gospel or have faith in the good news; the good news of God's kingdom.
Because as Mark 13v13 says the one who endures to the end will be saved.
What are works that befit repentance? Acts 26v20 B; Rom 2v6; 1Peter 2v12;James 2v20
Feralbeest
Member
I don't think it says this anywhere in the Bible. This sounds like an assumption you have made.
I am glad you inquired above because I should have posted my reference Scriptures.
Didn't Abraham know that the promised 'seed' would come through Isaac?
-Gen 21v12 B.
How could Isaac have offspring if was not resurrected?
Isaac had no children before Isaac was spared.
Please notice Hebrews 11 vs 17-19 where it says about Abraham that accounting that God was able to raise him [Isaac] up, even from the dead,....
Thanks, URAVIP2ME, for your responses. I think your posts are edifying.
I'm still not quite clear though on your reference point.
I would appreciate your doing me the favor of answering a few basic questions.
1) Is Jesus Christ your Savior and Lord?
2) What do those two terms mean in your life?
3) Is there anything on your part on which Jesus being your savior must be conditioned, and without which he would not be your savior?
I suggest spiritual works are the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Gal 5:22-23)
I see a couple of things here:
1) deeds of repentance (deeds necessary for repentance), and
2) deeds proving repentance (deeds necesssary to prove one has indeed repented).
Repentence means turn back, have another mind, change of mind. . .that is, to turn
a) from sin, and to living apart from sin, and
b) from unbelief in Jesus Christ, and to faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness of one's sin.
1) The NT says both of these are the required works of repentance.
2) The deeds proving repentance (of which faith in Jesus Chirst is a part and, therefore, are deeds also proving that faith,
but which deeds, in themselves, are not repentance itself, nor that faith itself),
are obedience to Jesus' commands, such as the deeds of Luke 4:43, Matt 24:14, 28:19:20, Ac 26:20b, Rom 2:6, 1 Pe 2:12, Jas 2:20.
So the works of repentance are turning from sin, and to faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
And the works proving repentance (as well as faith in Jesus Christ) are obedience to Jesus' commands.
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Not according to the NT: Jn 5:38, 6:29,40, 14:1.
You are not the authority for Christian doctrine, and nowhere is that notion found in the NT.
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Go on to John 5;39. Go on to John 6;32, What is 4.0, as of 14;1, means believe what I am saying, if for nothing else for the works.
Further books do not interpret themselves.
Are you the authority of all times and seasons under heaven?
I am not doctrinaire, I speak as I am taught.
4.0 should be 40 (Jn 6:40).
What a hodgepodge. . .
1) Jn 14:1 says nothing about "if for nothing else for the works."
That is a comment elsewhere, addressing their request that he show them the Father.
Jesus is correcting Philip for not knowing that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father, because the Father is in him.
He tells Philip to believe what he says, "if for nothing else but the works."
That passage is about belief.
2) Jn 14:1 is about trust.
Trust is the antidote for their troubled hearts, caused by the disturbing news they had just received from Jesus.
And who trusts what someone says if they don't trust in the one who says it?
They are to trust in him as they trust in God himself.
Whoever is "teaching" you likewise needs instruction in what the NT Word written plainly says.
The meaning of the words in NT Greek interprets them, in the context of the passage and, in this case, the context of the NT.
But you think your authority is higher than the plain meaning of the Word written.
What you are being "taught" sets the Word against itself by contradicting the rest of the Word written.
The Word written does not contradict itself.
Therefore, your "teacher" is in error.
You have no written standard by which to meaure your teacher's instruction.
That's a recipe for self-deception. . .evidenced in the hodgepodge above.
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John 14;11
You have no written standard. Texts are interpreted. God's word is a living word, written in the heart of those who love him.
The standard that you so arrogantly proclaim is a theology developed over time by men, men who teach as doctrine the precepts of men.
That verse says believe, it does not say trust. The two words are not interchangeable, as you seem to think they are.
More hodgepodge. . .the only living Word is Jesus Christ (Jn 1:14).
I suppose you also think we have no written standard as the basis for the laws of this land. . .
that judges and courts are free to just "wing it," like you "wing it" with God's Word written.
The standard is the Word written. . .written by men. . .not by angels. . .not by Jesus. . .but by men who were taught by Jesus, except for Luke who was taught by Paul, who was taught by Jesus.
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