Salvation

[Misty]

Are you confessing your own inability?

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

[Wotan]

Are you confessing your own inability?

I think she is saying that all that is meaningless garbage. There is NO afterlife nor "salvation" nor anything to be saved from. Death ends all. Now if you have evidence to the contrary produce it.

Absent that you have meaningless phrases.

 

[Misty]

I think she is saying that all that is meaningless garbage. There is NO afterlife nor "salvation" nor anything to be saved from. Death ends all. Now if you have evidence to the contrary produce it.

Absent that you have meaningless phrases.

To be fair there is some good stuff in the book too among the myths, legends and concepts, which aren't credible.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Those seem like meaningless phrases to me!

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Misty]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Of course.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I think she is saying that all that is meaningless garbage. There is NO afterlife nor "salvation" nor anything to be saved from. Death ends all. Now if you have evidence to the contrary produce it.
Absent that you have meaningless phrases.

How about being saved or delivered from death itself ?

Even if you do not consider it evidence, Scriptures do speak of the future time under Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth when at that time even death will be no more. -Rev 21vs4,5.

According to Matthew [25vs31,32] this will start when the living sheep-like people alive on earth at the time of the start of Jesus millennial reign, and they can have the prospect of never having to die but continue to live forever on a paradisaic earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No Abraham had faith in God that God wouldn't let him kill Isaac.
"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together" Genesis 22:8

Abraham knew Isaac would be the lamb. Apparently he did not tell Isaac until the time of the sacrifice that is why he told Isaac God would provide the sacrifice. Until the angel stopped him, Abraham believed Isaac was the sacrifice that is why Hebrews [11vs18,19] says that Abraham believed God was able to raise Isaac up, even from the dead.....

What would be the point of the test if Abraham knew in advance that God would not let him go through with the sacrifice?

 

[Thesavorofpan]

..

What would be the point of the test if Abraham knew in advance that God would not let him go through with the sacrifice?

Too see if he had enough love and faith in God that he would give up his dream.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Romans 6:8
Only if we be dead with Christ via Repentance/Baptism/Holy Ghost infillment.

...and besides repentance, doesn't one need to make a personal dedication to God to do his will before outward baptism?

 

[Thesavorofpan]

...and besides repentance, doesn't one need to make a personal dedication to God to do his will before outward baptism?

What do you mean by that?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Too see if he had enough love and faith in God that he would give up his dream.

A promise is not a dream.

Abraham was promised that through his seed [Isaac] all families and all nations of earth will be blessed. [Gen 12v3;22vs17,18.] Abraham was not giving up that promise. That is why Abraham had faith in the resurrection hope as chapter eleven of Hebrews brings out.

According to Scripture God does not offer or promise dreams but hope
-everlasting hope.
2nd Peter 3v13

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What do you mean by that?

As flipseven77 said at post #57

".... you have to change your entire life and orchestrate it according to God's will."

A person can truly repent but that does not necessarily mean he is dedicating his life to the doing of God's will ahead of his own will.

One might Not have to change one's entire life course, just change what is not in harmony with God's will and purpose.

Jesus gave his followers a teaching commission and to proclaim world wide the good news of God's kingdom as the solution to mankind's problems until the end times of all badness comes on earth. -Matthew 28vs19,20; 24v14

A person might refrain from telling lies, stealing or murder, etc. but is that person obedient to Jesus new commandment of John 13 vs34,35
and obeying Jesus command found at Matthew?

 

[Thesavorofpan]

A promise is not a dream.

Abraham was promised that through his seed [Isaac] all families and all nations of earth will be blessed. [Gen 12v3;22vs17,18.] Abraham was not giving up that promise. That is why Abraham had faith in the resurrection hope as chapter eleven of Hebrews brings out.

According to Scripture God does not offer or promise dreams but hope
-everlasting hope.
2nd Peter 3v13

It was God's promise and Abraham's dream.

But yeah Everlasting hope!

 

[Thesavorofpan]

As flipseven77 said at post #57

".... you have to change your entire life and orchestrate it according to God's will."

A person can truly repent but that does not necessarily mean he is dedicating his life to the doing of God's will ahead of his own will.

One might Not have to change one's entire life course, just change what is not in harmony with God's will and purpose.

Jesus gave his followers a teaching commission and to proclaim world wide the good news of God's kingdom as the solution to mankind's problems until the end times of all badness comes on earth. -Matthew 28vs19,20; 24v14

A person might refrain from telling lies, stealing or murder, etc. but is that person obedient to Jesus new commandment of John 13 vs34,35
and obeying Jesus command found at Matthew?

Well I'm not about to disagree to that.

 

[Misty]

As flipseven77 said at post #57

".... you have to change your entire life and orchestrate it according to God's will."

A person can truly repent but that does not necessarily mean he is dedicating his life to the doing of God's will ahead of his own will.

One might Not have to change one's entire life course, just change what is not in harmony with God's will and purpose.

Jesus gave his followers a teaching commission and to proclaim world wide the good news of God's kingdom as the solution to mankind's problems until the end times of all badness comes on earth. -Matthew 28vs19,20; 24v14

A person might refrain from telling lies, stealing or murder, etc. but is that person obedient to Jesus new commandment of John 13 vs34,35
and obeying Jesus command found at Matthew?

Judging by what is considered 'gods will' in the Bible I will do my own thing thanks, rather than subject myself to the will of a psychopath!

 

[Thief]

Judging by what is considered 'gods will' in the Bible I will do my own thing thanks, rather than subject myself to the will of a psychopath!

Still not believing in life after death?
Why bother to object to something you don't believe in?

I think you're still trying to convince yourself...there's nothing out there.

If He is there...you're afraid of Him.

 

[Misty]

Still not believing in life after death?
Why bother to object to something you don't believe in?

I think you're still trying to convince yourself...there's nothing out there.

It He is there...you're afraid of Him.

If I believed the so and so existed I would be very afraid of it, and as humans we should be doing all we can to assassinate it! However, as the deity has all the worst of human charactistics, it is much more likely the thing is a purely human creation.

 

[Thief]

If I believed the so and so existed I would be very afraid of it, and as humans we should be doing all we can to assassinate it! However, as the deity has all the worst of human charactistics, it is much more likely the thing is a purely human creation.

Or He really could be your worst nightmare.
An Almighty God that hates denial.

 

[Misty]

Or He really could be your worst nightmare.
An Almighty God that hates denial.

Well tough chitty God!

 

[Misty]

Here is some biblical "education" regarding this question:

Is anything more than FAITH needed in order to gain salvation?

(The entire provision for salvation is an expression of God's undeserved kindness. There is no way that a descendant of Adam can gain salvation on his own, no matter how noble his works are. Salvation is a gift from God given to those who put faith in the sin-atoning value of the sacrifice of his son, Jesus.)

However, the Bible state, in Heb.5:9 - He (Jesus) became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." Does this conflict with the statement that Christians are "saved through faith"? Not at all! Obdience simply demonstrates that their FAITH is genuine!

This is getting even more clearly explained in Jas.2:14,26 - "What does it profit ,my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can his faith save him?For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead." ( This means : A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith WILL have works to go with it - works of obedience to the commands of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and LOVE. Without such works, his faith is dead.....according to the WORD OF God.

So - I believe that both faith AND works (acting in harmony with our beliefs) is necessary in order to get salvation. It's impossible with only ONE of this, they are glued together, so to say. In addittion i want to point to this...:

Is is so that ones a person is saved, he is always saved?

No, not according to the BIBLE! Matt. 24:13 says "He who endures to the end will be saved." (Meaning; A persons final salvation is not determined at the moment he begins to put faith in Jesus.)

And Jesus said in Phil. 2:12 - : "As you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Here Paul urged the christians not to be overly confident, but to realize that their final salvation was NOT yet assured.)

And last, but not least: Heb.10:26,27 - If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries." ( This tell us that the Bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what sins a person may commit after he's "saved" - he will not lose his salvation.) Salvation encourages FAITHFULNESS! To the very end.

PS: For other questions please concact me.

There is no evidence that statements from the Bible are the 'truth'!