Saving Yourself for Marriage?

[Shermana]

Being promiscuous isn't what makes porn stars ugly. It's the drugs, sleepless nights, and the fact they weren't great looking without makeup in the first place.

These women were NASTY without makeup. Drugs and sleep deprivation can't possibly make anyone that horrid looking. Sorry. I've met people who are meth-heads that rarely sleep. No comparison.

Now thus begets another question: What makes a woman "good looking" in the first place? "Genes"? If so, why do the "genes" cause good lookingness in the first place? Is it purely a fertility issue?

 

[Shermana]

So that is your source? And you are comparing it to the study dust1n put forth and saying dust1n's study is lacking?

Seriously, what is your source?

What is it that makes women uglier when having sex? What counts aas sex for the uglification? Does it happen to men too? Does masturbation make them ugly too? Is it with how many partners they ve had sex or how many times? Or both?

Ahem....Dustin's source is a bit lacking, as I explained. My source is my personal experiences. After all, personal experiences and anecdotes seem to be not a problem for those on the other side here, why not mine?

I'm not going to get into the why's and how's here, as I said before. Talk to me personally and I will. But yes, it is about number of partners more so than number of times altogether, I'll say that at least. And also, male ahem..."self-stimulation" will result in this, as the Indian Brahamcharyists also agree, in my view. But not for females.

 

[Shermana]

Nope. Your logic is deficient because you assume if I lined up ten women you could spot the virgin.
Dare I ask your opinion on the physical attractiveness or lack thereof of a man after losing his virginity?

Oh, I see what's going on.

You're under the impression I made some claim that I could spot a virgin from non-virgins just from looking.

I see. This explains your strange responses.

Well I suppose it's highly probable one can find a comment to be stupid or ridiculous when they aren't capable of actually reading what I said, or reading anything they want into it.

Either show me where I claimed that I can spot a virgin instantly or kindly admit that you shot the gun while it was in the holster and completely misread what I said, or imagined something I said.

Seriously, what is up with this thread that is making people read something I didn't say whatsoever? This is like the third or fourth time.

As for a man, since I'm far more dashing than most other guys, I suppose I have only myself as a comparison, but I'm not really able to judge appearances on guys. I mean, I can tell the difference between a guy women would probably like or not at least.

In Indian Brahmacharya, they do believe that the more a man loses his "seed" the less youthful he becomes, so maybe I'll gauge it from that, since I share a lot of views on the Indian beliefs on chastity.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

These women were NASTY without makeup. Drugs and sleep deprivation can't possibly make anyone that horrid looking. Sorry. I've met people who are meth-heads that rarely sleep. No comparison.

Now thus begets another question: What makes a woman "good looking" in the first place? "Genes"? If so, why do the "genes" cause good lookingness in the first place? Is it purely a fertility issue?

And I know beautiful women that have had sex with tons of guys... Does that mean I think promiscuous girls become better looking? The whole notion is just ridiculous.

 

[Shermana]

And I know beautiful women that have had sex with tons of guys...

With or without makeup?

I've seen beautiful girls who become ugh-ly or plain at best when the make-up's gone.

Try not to straw man what I'm saying (a common occurence I've noticed), I'm not saying they necessarily become ugly with a few partners or even more than average. All I'm saying is that they lose what they would have been.

Find me a woman who's had over 30 partners who is still highly attractive without makeup and we'll talk.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

With or without makeup?

I've seen beautiful girls who become ugh-ly or plain at best when the make-up's gone.

Without. I still don't see how you're getting to this conclusion though.

EDIT: Deleted last part because of your edit lol.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Find me a woman who's had over 30 partners who is still highly attractive without makeup and we'll talk.

Any woman who's had more than 30 partners probably isn't too willing to admit it.

 

[Shermana]

Without. I still don't see how you're getting to this conclusion though. Are you telling me that if I showed you a picture of two beautiful women without makeup, you'd be able to tell which one had sex with more guys?

You know for a fact they weren't wearing makeup? Perhaps we have a different definition of beautiful. I'd have to see the picture. Are we talking an 8+ or a 6 here?

No I wouldn't be able to say that. I find it interesting that you guys keep insisting that I said I'd be able to tell the difference. I wouldn't. I didn't say that.

Let me elaborate for you, Lewis, and others who may misconstrue what I'm saying: I'm simply saying they aren't as attractive as they would have been.

A promiscuous girl who starts off as a 10 will be probably more attractive than a virgin who starts off as a 7. Does that make sense?

Seriously, all I'm saying is that in my experiences, virgins are generally more attractive. For some reason people have a problem with this observation. Like I said, personal anecdotes seem to count as standard evidence for everyone else here, why not me?

 

[Shermana]

Any woman who's had more than 30 partners probably isn't too willing to admit it.

Ah, must be all those centuries of social conditioning built up that just won't go away even though we live in one of the most promiscuous times in history with decades past the sexual revolution.

We can just blame that natural sense of guilt on it for decades and decades, it's such a convenient excuse.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You know for a fact they weren't wearing makeup? Perhaps we have a different definition of beautiful. I'd have to see the picture. Are we talking an 8+ or a 6 here?

No I wouldn't be able to say that. I find it interesting that you guys keep insisting that I said I'd be able to tell the difference. I wouldn't. I didn't say that.

Let me elaborate for you, Lewis, and others who may misconstrue what I'm saying: I'm simply saying they aren't as attractive as they would have been.

A promiscuous girl who starts off as a 10 will be probably more attractive than a virgin who starts off as a 7. Does that make sense?

Seriously, all I'm saying is that in my experiences, virgins are generally more attractive. For some reason have a problem with this observation. Like I said, personal anecdotes seem to count as standard evidence for everyone else here, why not me?

I get what you're saying; I just don't agree at all. Also, from my experience it doesn't really matter how many guys they've had sex with. Half the "virgins" you're describing were probably lying to you because you told them you're a virgin and they didn't wanna feel trashy.

 

[Shermana]

I get what you're saying; I just don't agree at all. Also, from my experience it doesn't really matter how many guys they've had sex with. Half the "virgins" you're describing were probably lying to you because you told them you're a virgin and they didn't wanna feel trashy.

You can imagine that half of them lying if you want, some of them may, some of them may not be. The Mormon girls I've known are usually pretty honest about it, same with the Orthodox Jewish girls. I wouldn't doubt a few have lied, but probably not half, you're just wishfully thinking there. Now, the non-religious Jewish girls, THEY can be promiscuous, let me tell you!

So you're saying you wouldn't care if a prospective mate had 1,000+ partners as long as there were no STDs, correct?

Like I said, I do find it funny how once my friends announce it to the girls at the party, their eyes light up like they've found a single millionaire.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You can imagine that half of them lying if you want, some of them may, some of them may not be. The Mormon girls I've known are usually pretty honest about it, same with the Orthodox Jewish girls. I wouldn't doubt a few have lied, but probably not half, you're just wishfully thinking there. Now, the non-religious Jewish girls, THEY can be promiscuous, let me tell you!

From my experience, the "good" religious girls are freakier than the others, but not as quick to admit it; especially Mormon and Catholic women.

So you're saying you wouldn't care if a prospective mate had 1,000+ partners as long as there were no STDs, correct?

As long as it's good I don't care. My sexual history isn't exactly "pure" either; I'm a homewrecker so there's really no room for judgement.

 

[Shermana]

From my experience, the "good" religious girls are freakier than the others, but not as quick to admit it; especially Mormon and Catholic women.

Depends on the religion. Some of those Mormon girls were pretty freaky, I could have got more than 2nd base if I wanted. But yes, a lot of these religious girls are much freakier than general. I could tell you stories of some Pastor's daughters.....

As long as it's good I don't care. My sexual history isn't exactly "pure" either; I'm a homewrecker so there's really no room for judgement.

Seriously? You wouldn't care if she's been with the whole town and more? Honestly?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Seriously? You wouldn't care if she's been with the whole town and more? Honestly?

Honestly. I get around quite a bit, so I've no reason to give her any grief. That's just a stupid double standard. Nobody faults me for having fun (at least not until some husbands find out )( ; hopefully not), so why should I judge a woman for it?

 

[Shermana]

Honestly. I get around quite a bit, so I've no reason to give her any grief. That's just a stupid double standard. Nobody faults me for having fun (at least not until some husbands find out )( ; hopefully not), so why should I judge a woman for it?

Well I guess the opinion of an adulterer on the matter should be classed a bit differently than a non.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Well I guess the opinion of an adulterer on the matter should be classed a bit differently than a non.

I'm not an adulterer; I don't have a wife. Don't lump me in with those sickos

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Oh, I see what's going on.

You're under the impression I made some claim that I could spot a virgin from non-virgins just from looking.

I see. This explains your strange responses.

Well I suppose it's highly probable one can find a comment to be stupid or ridiculous when they aren't capable of actually reading what I said, or reading anything they want into it.

Either show me where I claimed that I can spot a virgin instantly or kindly admit that you shot the gun while it was in the holster and completely misread what I said, or imagined something I said.

You can't tell the difference? Okay, at least we've established something. So then, what you are saying is that you have observed a sample of women who were very attractive virgins, had sex, and then became less attractive.
Or were average looking virgins, had sex, and then became ugly.

Right?

My point being, how the heck do you know they were virgins in the first place? Hymen examination? Negatory, captain. That's not a good indication of virginity. Because they told you?

So, let me spell this out really simply for you;

1) In order to support even an anecdotal claim, you need to have a sample of women you KNOW were virgins, had a certain level of attractiveness, and then became less attractive. Hence, I think it is quite appropriate to ask whether you can spot a virgin.

2) In order to support even an anecdotal claim, you need to have some clear definition of what a virgin is. So, what's your definition?

3) In order to support anything MORE than an anecdotal claim, you'd need to have even a vague measure of scientific evidence. At this point I'd be willing to accept a bare-***** guess at anything that might cause the sort of change you're discussing, since it would be a step forwards. Given your avoidance of many of the questions I asked you last post, forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Seriously, what is up with this thread that is making people read something I didn't say whatsoever? This is like the third or fourth time.

Oh, for goodness sake, if you make a claim that virgins are more attractive, and that the same woman becomes less attractive when she's a non-virgin, there is an implicit claim of being able to recognize a virgin. Unless your claim is that women always tell you the truth about their virginity. Either way, I find it an interesting claim.

Whilst I know you are claiming a virgin becomes less attactive after sex, I have no idea at all how you believe this happens. So forgive me if I try to read some vague logical connection into what you've posted.

As for a man, since I'm far more dashing than most other guys, I suppose I have only myself as a comparison, but I'm not really able to judge appearances on guys. I mean, I can tell the difference between a guy women would probably like or not at least.

The point isn't whether a guy is good looking. It's whether you think a guy becomes less good-looking after he has sex. More to the point, is your belief that your looks will diminish after having intercourse.

In Indian Brahmacharya, they do believe that the more a man loses his "seed" the less youthful he becomes, so maybe I'll gauge it from that, since I share a lot of views on the Indian beliefs on chastity.

So you don't masturbate?

 

[Falvlun]

In Indian Brahmacharya, they do believe that the more a man loses his "seed" the less youthful he becomes, so maybe I'll gauge it from that, since I share a lot of views on the Indian beliefs on chastity.

Haha, that's probably because every time you spill seed you are necessarily older than the last time you did it.

 

[Falvlun]

But seriously, Shermana, have you ever considered that the reason you might find non-virgins to be less attractive than virgins is because, on average, the non-virgin will be older? Perhaps it is merely youth that you are finding appealing, and have mistaken that for virginity.

 

[dust1n]

Quite a sloppy study, or at least reporting of the results. It would be helpful if they indicated whether if it was with a single partner or ten or 1000, don't you think?

I once met a woman at a Chabad Jewish function who was very attractive, then I find out she's the Rabbi's wife and has 7 kids. Presumably she'd be only with him considering the culture.

Meanwhile some of the ugliest women I've ever met, without makeup on, have been porn stars.

So your claims are backed up by... that's right... nothing but anecdotal experience subjected to the biases of your personal taste. Have fun with that.