Searching for one secular reason to ban gay marriage

[Prometheus]

However, I would say that I have produced a legitimate secular argument as the OP requested although as I have been forced to admit, it isn't one I agree with.

I will concede you have proposed a good argument. However, all it has convinced me of is that there is a flaw in the government's perception of which relationships should receive benefits and which should not. It has not convinced me of any immorality in homosexuality. I realize this was not your intention to begin with, but I still wish to point it out.

Furthermore, even if I were to concede that marriage itself is not a human right (I'm still debating this with myself depending how you define marriage), many of the legal rights and benefits currently granted by marriage are human rights which, as of now, are either unnecessarily difficult or impossible to contract for otherwise.

 

[Comprehend]

I will concede you have proposed a good argument.

thanks.

However, all it has convinced me of is that there is a flaw in the government's perception of which relationships should receive benefits and which should not.

I agree.

It has not convinced me of any immorality in homosexuality. I realize this was not your intention to begin with, but I still wish to point it out.

You are right, I wasn't trying to convince anyone that homosexuality is immoral here. That would really be a difficult secular argument. I do understand your point though.

Furthermore, even if I were to concede that marriage itself is not a human right (I'm still debating this with myself depending how you define marriage), many of the legal rights and benefits currently granted by marriage are human rights which, as of now, are either unnecessarily difficult or impossible to contract for otherwise.

I understand your point here as well.

 

[Moey]

Bigotry will always be around I suposse. But I would like to know one thing. How is my lesbian relationship hurting anyone else or even "making a mockery" of marrage?

 

[Truth_Faith13]

im curious as to why this thread has been posted in the way it is? why not just say what are you thoughts on Gay marriage? more so than a reason to "ban" it? although technically you cant ban something that is properly legalised (unless you mean civil partnersips!)

 

[Truth_Faith13]

im curious as to why this thread has been posted in the way it is? why not just say what are you thoughts on Gay marriage? more so than a reason to "ban" it? although technically you cant ban something that is properly legalised (unless you mean civil partnersips!)

 

[roli]

To compare or link homosexuality to pedophilia is like saying that all people of faith are like the religious zelots that attacked on 9/11 and should be treated as terrorists.

I did'nt make the link between pedophilia and homosexuality,that's not my job I was simply quoting serveral articles i have researched.
Is it my fault you care not to google the relationship between the two.
There is so much on this topic if you would google,maybe your afraid what you might find, my arguing to you as to whether these are accurate is futile and a waste of my time no disrespect intended.

 

[roli]

Bigotry will always be around I suposse. But I would like to know one thing. How is my lesbian relationship hurting anyone else or even "making a mockery" of marrage?

Don't worry, those who advocate against same sex marriage are'nt loosing sleep over it ,at least I 'm not.
It's just ,well, Man and women were created for a purpose, I mean you don't have to be a rocket scienitist to understand the purposes of the two ,but you must have knowledge along with perception to understand that purpose,much like anything that really had any logic ,intent or purpose behind it's design or creation.
Can you use a car for a storage locker or a garden to grow plants or even to sail on the lake,or to travel on rocky ground.
There are many purposes for most things,but not all are beneficial,it might be convienent and pleasurable for awhile ,but the end result will be detrimental,why because things must be used in the manner they were created.
Women with women or men with men do not fulfill the natural order and purpose of the species
It's quite ironic how lesbians who want nothing to do with men usually have one who is more masculine and the other more feminine & homosexuals the same.

What's up with that ??????

 

[Moey]

Masculine or feminine qualities have more to do with personalitythan anything else. Did it ever occur to anyone that homosexuality is the begining of a new evolution? Overpopulation is becoming a problem and maybe this is part of the solution.

 

[Nanda]

It's quite ironic how lesbians who want nothing to do with men usually have one who is more masculine and the other more feminine & homosexuals the same.

What's up with that ??????

Well, you see, that is what we call a "stereotype." That's what's up with that.

Seriously, do you even know ANY lesbains? Or are you just making assumptions based on ignorance?

 

[roli]

Bigotry will always be around I suposse. But I would like to know one thing. How is my lesbian relationship hurting anyone else or even "making a mockery" of marrage?

You calling this bigotry may be something you truly expereince from some ,but my opposition to your practicing this lifestyle is a moral and ethical question.

Moral I am sure you know what I mean,etical in the sense of what it creates in the minds of children who are encouraged to explore it by those practicing such lifestyles.
They are told when people ask or oppose their lifestyle or if they are confronted about it as they evolve into adults that they were born that way,that was how God made them ,that enrages me when I hear people claim they were born that way etc.
There has been no proof and there will not be any physiological proof that men and women were born that way.
I have never heard any who practice that lifestyle claim they quite possibly were influenced by peers,family ,freinds or those of the lifestyle.

 

[Moey]

Children are not influenced by homosexuality. They still grow up and follow their own path.

I was born this way and knew when i was a child although i thried to fight it and be normal.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Don't worry, those who advocate against same sex marriage are'nt loosing sleep over it ,at least I 'm not.
It's just ,well, Man and women were created for a purpose, I mean you don't have to be a rocket scienitist to understand the purposes of the two ,but you must have knowledge along with perception to understand that purpose,much like anything that really had any logic ,intent or purpose behind it's design or creation.
Can you use a car for a storage locker or a garden to grow plants or even to sail on the lake,or to travel on rocky ground.
There are many purposes for most things,but not all are beneficial,it might be convienent and pleasurable for awhile ,but the end result will be detrimental,why because things must be used in the manner they were created.
Women with women or men with men do not fulfill the natural order and purpose of the species
It's quite ironic how lesbians who want nothing to do with men usually have one who is more masculine and the other more feminine & homosexuals the same.

What's up with that ??????

Its a scientific fact that a female homosexual will have more testosterone and a male too much femininity! that is why we have homosexuality! I have never known a masculine Gay or a Feminine lesbian! So thats the actual reason why?.....

I just think women were created with their parts and men with theirs for a reason. I mean what is the point of evolving into two completely complex organisms to only go with the same sort! Evolution and science would have made us all the same - dont ask me what that would be I dont know - maybe we would all have the ability to produce asexually like plants do!

The way I see it is its like a jigsaw puzzle - two pieces, men and women. Only men and women physically fit together and were ment to be together!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

You calling this bigotry may be something you truly expereince from some ,but my opposition to your practicing this lifestyle is a moral and ethical question.

Moral I am sure you know what I mean,etical in the sense of what it creates in the minds of children who are encouraged to explore it by those practicing such lifestyles.
They are told when people ask or oppose their lifestyle or if they are confronted about it as they evolve into adults that they were born that way,that was how God made them ,that enrages me when I hear people claim they were born that way etc.
There has been no proof and there will not be any physiological proof that men and women were born that way.
I have never heard any who practice that lifestyle claim they quite possibly were influenced by peers,family ,freinds or those of the lifestyle.

There is actually proof to an extent. Something in the brain which is of different size for men and women. And in this situation that man has the size of a woman and the women have the size of the man! I cant remember what it was completely!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Its a scientific fact that a female homosexual will have more testosterone and a male too much femininity! that is why we have homosexuality! I have never known a masculine Gay or a Feminine lesbian! So thats the actual reason why?

This is certainly not always true. In fact, I know many masculine gays and feminine lesbians.

I just think women were created with their parts and men with theirs for a reason. I mean what is the point of evolving into two completely complex organisms to only go with the same sort!

I've used a screwdriver as a hammer before...

Evolution and science would have made us all the same - dont ask me what that would be I dont know - maybe we would all have the ability to produce asexually like plants do!

Actually, there are male plants and female plants.

The way I see it is its like a jigsaw puzzle - two pieces, men and women. Only men and women physically fit together and were ment to be together!

But there are more than simply "man and woman." Human biology is actually a spectrum more than a dichotomy.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with jamming a few pieces together until they fit! I was never great with puzzles...

 

[Truth_Faith13]

This is certainly not always true. In fact, I know many masculine gays and feminine lesbians.



I've used a screwdriver as a hammer before...



Actually, there are male plants and female plants.



But there are more than simply "man and woman." Human biology is actually a spectrum more than a dichotomy.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with jamming a few pieces together until they fit! I was never great with puzzles...

I am well aware of female plants and male plants. Unfortunately I had to leanr about it in A level Biology!!!! Hated plants but for I needed it to get into my degree in Medical microbiology and Virology (thankfully nothing to do with plants!! )
I was just stating that there are some which produce asexually and maybe we would have evolved like that if there was no need for differences!

You can jam all you like - but it only ends up damaging it!

And whats the screwdriver/hammer business all about?

 

[roli]

There is actually proof to an extent. Something in the brain which is of different size for men and women. And in this situation that man has the size of a woman and the women have the size of the man! I cant remember what it was completely!

I think personally more rests on the fact that it is the influence and acceptance of our culture and the direction we are going that increases the chances of more children turning towards that lifestyle ,not to mention that broken family units and relationships with parents play an important role as well.

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in the homelife of many of those who now practice homsexuality, just to see how the same sex parents interacted with the same sex child and vise versa and if there was emotional and pycchological trauma expereinced by either of or both the parents.
Things such as emtionally distant parents,disappointments,broken promises ,lies, divorce etc,.these I believe play a very significant role in how the child developes in all it's orientations and social interactions and behaviors.
These usually occur later on in adult life and it is easier to follow the path of the norm in society or the sexual orientation encouraged at certain times of one's life then expereince the painful confession of the emtional needs the child was robbed of in childhood.

 

[Prometheus]

Moral I am sure you know what I mean,etical in the sense of what it creates in the minds of children who are encouraged to explore it by those practicing such lifestyles.

Your logic is that it's wrong because it teaches other people to do it. That's circular reasoning. It makes as much sense for me to claim that eating peanut butter is wrong because it may encourage others to eat peanut butter.

Also, straight people can raise gay children, so gay people can raise straight children. Sexual orientation isn't taught, it's innate. I certainly never learned to become attracted to females by observing my mother and father. That would be really strange, don't you think?

They are told when people ask or oppose their lifestyle or if they are confronted about it as they evolve into adults that they were born that way,that was how God made them ,that enrages me when I hear people claim they were born that way etc.

It's weird that heterosexuals have "lives" and homosexuals have "lifestyles", isn't it?

There has been no proof and there will not be any physiological proof that men and women were born that way.

Yes, there is, and the only people who seem to be denying it are the religious. Coincidence?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

You can jam all you like - but it only ends up damaging it!

Lol! Though I think the jigsaw puzzle analogy is pretty good, I'm not sure it works for humans all that well.

And whats the screwdriver/hammer business all about?

Well, I was responding to your point of how male and female parts are designed for a certain use. Screwdrivers are too, but they can be used for other things, such as hammering.

 

[Moey]

I was just stating that there are some which produce asexually and maybe we would have evolved like that if there was no need for differences!

Who says we won't yet evolve like that? I highly doubt that this is the end of human evolution.

 

[Moey]

I am starting to believe that homosexuality is just a part of human evolution and that is why the religious communty is trying so hard to fight it. If evolution is real than what does that say about creation?