Searching for one secular reason to ban gay marriage

[Guitar's Cry]

Sin caused such behaviors, Jesus only came to change that carnal erotic ,sensual,indulgent nature,but man loves the pleasures of sin ,but according to God only for a season

I respect your right to hold such religious views, but the title of the thread is: Searching for one secular reason to ban gay marriage.

Do you have any secular reasoning to back up gay marriage?

 

[Gentoo]

There is a difference between lust and love and that is definitely something Jesus was opposed to.

It's interesting how Jesus is viewed as being tolerant towards immorality ,unantural acts of sexual behavior.

The question is what Jesus are to attempting to quote.
Don't make be pull up scripture,as that is disallowed by popular opinion on this thread.
The gospel always did and always will expose truth and error,light and darkness.
That is why if we can keep him out of any or all topics our consciences won't be working on us.

There's a difference between being tolerant and being intolerant yet knowing when to close one's mouth. Besides, there is no way to truly know what Jesus or God truly loves or hates, some Christians seem to love putting words in God's mouth by saying what he likes and dislikes.

I asked about love, not lust, which as you pointed out are very different. Love does not automatically equal lust in heterosexual relationships or homosexual relationships.

So, why did Jesus' message of unconditional love and understanding become exclusive and conditional?

 

[UnTheist]

Sin caused such behaviors, Jesus only came to change that carnal erotic ,sensual,indulgent nature,but man loves the pleasures of sin ,but according to God only for a season

This is yet another one of your My-holy-Bible-says-it's-wrong-so-let's-leave-it-at-that reasons to justify your arguments.

Obviously you don't know what the word Secular means. Please look it up in a dictionary and try to form a reasonable debate.

 

[roli]

This is yet another one of your My-holy-Bible-says-it's-wrong-so-let's-leave-it-at-that reasons to justify your arguments.

Obviously you don't know what the word Secular means. Please look it up in a dictionary and try to form a reasonable debate.

My friend, your very title," schism" tells me your divided from the get go,why should anything provoke you.

 

[lilithu]

I am starting to believe that homosexuality is just a part of human evolution and that is why the religious communty is trying so hard to fight it.

Fight evolution or fight homosexuality?

Either way, please do not say "the religious community" as if there is only one religious community with one view. My religious community supports both scientific inquiry including evolutionary theory and human equality including BGLT equality.

If evolution is real than what does that say about creation?

Evolution does not make a value judgment on "creation."

 

[roli]

There's a difference between being tolerant and being intolerant yet knowing when to close one's mouth. Besides, there is no way to truly know what Jesus or God truly loves or hates, some Christians seem to love putting words in God's mouth by saying what he likes and dislikes.

I asked about love, not lust, which as you pointed out are very different. Love does not automatically equal lust in heterosexual relationships or homosexual relationships.

So, why did Jesus' message of unconditional love and understanding become exclusive and conditional?

Love today is very overrated term many tend to use and lean towards for arguement sake only.

I hear so many speak of love as if they really know what that means.
The word love is so overused it's not funny.
They call lust love,bad good, immoral moral.

Society just can't tell right from wrong anymore,

 

[roli]

I respect your right to hold such religious views, but the title of the thread is: Searching for one secular reason to ban gay marriage.

Do you have any secular reasoning to back up gay marriage?

I am repsonding to what someone already brought up regarding Jesus.

Please scroll back to verify that.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Love today is very overrated term many tend to use and lean towards for arguement sake only.

I hear so many speak of love as if they really know what that means.
The word love is so overused it's not funny.
They call lust love,bad good, immoral moral.

Society just can't tell right from wrong anymore,

Well, postmodernism and all...

The problem with love is that it's completely subjective. Love is what the individual makes it. No one can experience another's love so there is really no way of gauging it.

But we can say that love is one of the positive things in what can be a harsh life. Homosexuals love. Why deny them a ceremony that celebrates it?

 

[Gentoo]

Love today is very overrated term many tend to use and lean towards for arguement sake only.

I hear so many speak of love as if they really know what that means.
The word love is so overused it's not funny.
They call lust love,bad good, immoral moral.

Society just can't tell right from wrong anymore,

"So many" may say that, but "so many" is far from "all". Love, is what makes the world go round, either the presence of or the lack of it; it's just that powerful. I think everyone deserves to have as much love given to them as possible. Why try to fight something as powerful as love? Who's to say what is right and what is wrong for a completely different individual?

Why did Jesus' message of unconditional love and understanding become exclusive and conditional?

 

[lilithu]

There is a difference between lust and love and that is definitely something Jesus was opposed to.

I don't know about you but I generally judge what a person cares about by how often he or she talks about it or does something about it. If he refers to it a lot, I tend think he cares about it more. If he refers to it only seldom if at all, I tend to think he doesn't care about it too much. If we counted the number of times Jesus talked about sex versus the number of times Jesus talked about being loving and caring towards others...hmm... exactly how many times did Jesus talk about sex roli?

And if one claims to be a follower of Jesus, shouldn't one take that as a guide?

 

[UnTheist]

My friend, your very title," schism" tells me your divided from the get go,why should anything provoke you.

Nice little Ad hominem you got there. Let me reiterate what I and many other people asked you to do:

Make a secular reason for your opposition and do not bring the Bible into it. I have yet to see one from you.

 

[Jaymes]

I am repsonding to what someone already brought up regarding Jesus.

Please scroll back to verify that.

Then start a thread for it. This thread is about secular reasons to ban gay marriage.

 

[Gentoo]

Then start a thread for it. This thread is about secular reasons to ban gay marriage.

Sorry, I brought up Jesus, I thought it was relevant...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They call lust love,bad good, immoral moral.

Society just can't tell right from wrong anymore,

Can you tell what is right or wrong, without using Biblical references? If you can, could you say how gay marriage is wrong via secular reasoning?

 

[roli]

Nice little Ad hominem you got there. Let me reiterate what I and many other people asked you to do:

Make a secular reason for your opposition and do not bring the Bible into it. I have yet to see one from you.

A secular position or view on such issues as homosexuality should not be the means in which to establish it.Where will it end when any minority arises and pushes for their agenda's
Regardless of a democratic society,there still must be guidelines,boundaries rules ,with it's basis from a moral and practical standpoint.
A pro Homosexual agenda instituted in society itself will benefit nothing for a society both from a moral and practical standpoint,just as sodomy, pedophilia,incest,beastiality and the like
This must be enforced by a governing body and not given control by the people.
You just can';t give a people everything they want or we will end up in a society where anarchy will arise.

Because there will be no end to what a group can concieve and if they feel their rights are violated if they are'nt allowed to express it will only produce a society of chaos.
As it is in our society the gov't has certainly deviated from any moral ,ethical standpoint and seem to only have personal agenda's in mind which is that of the vote of the people.
By that I mean, when the people say, we want this and that,not considering the overall end results but only voicing from a persoanlly indulgent self gratifying position.
Why must the gov't give in so easily.
There must be a higher law then giving the people what they want.
This must be strictly opposed by those guidelines our country was built on
Such issues should be voted by the people but controlled by the Gov't but where do we draw the line when the people are for example progay,pro gun,pro freedom of speech,pro freedom of expression, pro abortion , pro euthanasia, so on ,so on.
You might as well remove the gov't all together, what will,their role be if the people abuse the consitutions set in place and demand that they be allowed
The gov't seemingly looses it's authority as is the case in North America
The problem is that politics and personal agendas come in between any gov';t establishing strict guidelines and taking evasive action to impose them.
Our gov't today seems to be limp and soft and afraid to stand up for what morals our Country was founded on.
So they give into society and give to every screaming minority group what they desire because our Gov't has no backbone.

Nations can't stand on the premise where the people rule.
Yes ,the gov't opens up doors where people can by constitutional law be and do what they want .but the people begin to abuse ,twist and destort and push the envelope for personal gain.
All the while the gov't becoming intimidated by the people begin to deviate from those established laws
But where will the line be drawn.
You can't by those constitutional rights say homosexuality is benficial and our right to express it without allowing every other sexual orientation in.
If the forfathers of North America where here today they would role over in their graves as to how far the line in the sand has been shifted and continues.
From our justice system to our sexual arena.

If we gauge issues based on what secular humanistic thinking is we are heading for a very brutle existence as is the case alll over the world.

 

[gnomon]

Homosexuals can act in the parental roles just as heterosexual parents. It doesn't matter that two homosexuals, acting alone, cannot produce offspring. A homosexual individual can produce children in much the same way many heterosexual couples do.

The argument that the government benefits from the production of children is not a secular argument against homosexual marriage. It is an argument against marriage in general. It is actually a wonderful argument for polygamy.

As far as the injection of the religius aspect into this thread none of those arguing that position have addressed an important point I already raised, that not all individuals are born male/female. In order to validate what has essentially been inserted as Biblical claims I believe it is necessary for this point to be addressed in order to validate thier argument.

 

[roli]

Can you tell what is right or wrong, without using Biblical references? If you can, could you say how gay marriage is wrong via secular reasoning?

The problem is that with any secular humanistic viewpoint comes relative thinking and the both have been aloowed to become dominate in our culture.
There is no right and there is no wrong, all is as one see;s it.

This will with out a doubt be the ruin of our nation as is the degenertae state we already see existing presently in our society.
With man at the helm and the Gov't and God in the back seat,society is in danger.
Why because man and all of his indulgent, carnal pleasures and practices have been allowed far too long to bully and push the envelope of any social law and this is making for a very nasty outcome .
But how can you tell the arrogant,proud and freely expressive person something like that .
They won't hear it.

 

[gnomon]

The problem is that with any secular humanistic viewpoint comes relative thinking and the both have been aloowed to become dominate in our culture.
There is no right and there is no wrong, all is as one see;s it.

This will with out a doubt be the ruin of our nation as is the degenertae state we already see existing presently in our society.
With man at the helm and the Gov't and God in the back seat,society is in danger.
Why because man and all of his indulgent, carnal pleasures and practices have been allowed far too long to bully and push the envelope of any social law and this is making for a very nasty outcome .
But how can you tell the arrogant,proud and freely expressive person something like that .
They won't hear it.

You start by providing empirical evidence rather than spouting paranoid nonsense.

 

[roli]

Homosexuals can act in the parental roles just as heterosexual parents. It doesn't matter that two homosexuals, acting alone, cannot produce offspring. A homosexual individual can produce children in much the same way many heterosexual couples do.

The argument that the government benefits from the production of children is not a secular argument against homosexual marriage. It is an argument against marriage in general. It is actually a wonderful argument for polygamy.

As far as the injection of the religius aspect into this thread none of those arguing that position have addressed an important point I already raised, that not all individuals are born male/female. In order to validate what has essentially been inserted as Biblical claims I believe it is necessary for this point to be addressed in order to validate thier argument.

Do think children will develope differently with opposite sex parents as opposed to same sex parents.
I mean think about that,2 men or 2 women raising a child ,do you think that that child will truly get from 2 men what a women is capable of giving.
Yes ,men may be feminine but can a men replace the attributes and characteristics a mother can give.
And will that child not be prone to be more influenced in such an enviroment to the pro gay lifestyle.

Please research this before you answer and tell me what you find,and please go to unbias sources and not progay researchers.

 

[lilithu]

The problem is that with any secular humanistic viewpoint comes relative thinking and the both have been aloowed to become dominate in our culture.
There is no right and there is no wrong, all is as one see;s it.

This will with out a doubt be the ruin of our nation as is the degenertae state we already see existing presently in our society.
With man at the helm and the Gov't and God in the back seat,society is in danger.
Why because man and all of his indulgent, carnal pleasures and practices have been allowed far too long to bully and push the envelope of any social law and this is making for a very nasty outcome .
But how can you tell the arrogant,proud and freely expressive person something like that .
They won't hear it.

In the larger context of society, your argument may have some merit. In the context of this particular thread it does not. Just as people are allowed to post threads asking that people respond within a Christian framework, so too people are allowed to post threads asking that people respond within a secular framework.