Searching for one secular reason to ban gay marriage

[standing_alone]

Do think children will develope differently with opposite sex parents as opposed to same sex parents.
I mean think about that,2 men or 2 women raising a child ,do you think that that child will truly get from 2 men what a women is capable of giving.
Yes ,men may be feminine but can a men replace the attributes and characteristics a mother can give.
And will that child not be prone to be more influenced in such an enviroment to the pro gay lifestyle.

Please research this before you answer and tell me what you find,and please go to unbias sources and not progay researchers.

I know two girls being brought up by lesbian parents. They have turned out no worse than their peers and are interested in members of the opposite sex.

Can you please tell me what the "pro gay lifestyle" is? I'm really curious. Is it the opposite of going around spewing hate speech?

 

[gnomon]

Do think children will develope differently with opposite sex parents as opposed to same sex parents.
I mean think about that,2 men or 2 women raising a child ,do you think that that child will truly get from 2 men what a women is capable of giving.
Yes ,men may be feminine but can a men replace the attributes and characteristics a mother can give.
And will that child not be prone to be more influenced in such an enviroment to the pro gay lifestyle.

Please research this before you answer and tell me what you find,and please go to unbias sources and not progay researchers.

Actually first address what I actually said.

 

[Sunstone]

But how can you tell the arrogant,proud and freely expressive person something like that.

This is an aside, but your conflation of arrogance and free expression is problematic.

 

[Sunstone]

I know two girls being brought up by lesbian parents. They have turned out no worse than their peers and are interested in members of the opposite sex.

I seem to recall there was a study released about a year or two ago that found no increase in emotional, mental or adjustment problems in kids raised by same sex couples.

Can you please tell me what the "pro gay lifestyle" is? I'm really curious. Is it the opposite of going around spewing hate speech?

Great point!

 

[lilithu]

Do think children will develope differently with opposite sex parents as opposed to same sex parents.

Probably. It may very well be that the child of same sex parents will grow up knowing that there are no (or should not be) prescribed social roles for men and women, whereas the child from opposite sex parents may have to work to overcome some of these misconceptions.

As for your fear that the child of same sex parents is more likely to be gay, first of all, so what? This is only a problem if one thinks there's something wrong with homosexuality. And secondly, it makes no sense. If kids are that susceptible to their family environment, then all the kids that grew up with opposite sex parents should be straight. And we know that's not the case. So why should it be that kids that grow up with same sex parents will be gay?

 

[Moey]

Why should anyone in this country have to fight for equality? Haven't we learned from our past?

Some of us are just not willing to wait a hundred years for rights we should already have.

 

[Jaymes]

Do think children will develope differently with opposite sex parents as opposed to same sex parents.
I mean think about that,2 men or 2 women raising a child ,do you think that that child will truly get from 2 men what a women is capable of giving.
Yes ,men may be feminine but can a men replace the attributes and characteristics a mother can give.
And will that child not be prone to be more influenced in such an enviroment to the pro gay lifestyle.

Please research this before you answer and tell me what you find,and please go to unbias sources and not progay researchers.

The funny thing is that the American Psychological Association and many studies (referenced here) don't support your ideas at all. And they're not "progay".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I mean think about that,2 men or 2 women raising a child ,do you think that that child will truly get from 2 men what a women is capable of giving.
Yes ,men may be feminine but can a men replace the attributes and characteristics a mother can give.
And will that child not be prone to be more influenced in such an enviroment to the pro gay lifestyle.
Please research this before you answer and tell me what you find,and please go to unbias sources and not progay researchers.

As I mentioned, a former boss of mine, who is lesbian, in a relationship, has raised two heterosexual, quite normal teenaged boys, who are have dreams of playing in the NFL, which is what fuels them to get through school. My old boss is even THRILLED her sons (from a relationship in which she tried to cure herself of being lesbian) are not gay, as she does not want them to have to deal with the hatred society shows gays and lesbians.
Your argument does bring up other points I would like to debate, but they go off topic.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Why should anyone in this country have to fight for equality? Haven't we learned from our past?

Some of us are just not willing to wait a hundred years for rights we should already have.

In most countries you do have equality! Im not sure which country you are from? I am from the UK for example and Gays/Lesbians can have a civil partnership, adopt children, have their own children through surrogate mothers? You cant get more equal than that! Ok I admit some countries its illegal to be Gay - you get flogged in some and thrown in prison in others. But those countries dont even have equality for some of the things we have - women etc! so I think Gays/Lesbians have a lot of equality!

 

[roli]

]Homosexuals can act in the parental roles just as heterosexual parents

.
That is absurd and has no merit ,unless you can provide some research,because what I have read points to the opposite.
There may be some similarities, but in the whole it is a very different world especially when the child understands what their peers have as hetrosexual parents that being a Mommy and daddy, that is a female mommy and a male daddy.

It doesn't matter that two homosexuals, acting alone, cannot produce offspring.

It does'nt matter for the gay activists and leftest groups,I agree
It's enough proof for anyone with a brain to see how insanely unatural the practice of 2 of the same sex are.
Please spare me the rhetoric and insult to my intelligence.It most certainly matters the 2 can't produce.
The fact that hetro's can't have kids,is just as unantural

A homosexual individual can produce children in much the same way many heterosexual couples do.

Your kidding me ,right.

The argument that the government benefits from the production of children is not a secular argument against homosexual marriage. It is an argument against marriage in general. It is actually a wonderful argument for polygamy.

No my freind soceity benefits and increases because of the naturalism and normalacy of hetro couples.
Nature and procreation for all human existence is the essential proof one needs that homosexuality can reap no futuristic benefit to society.
It appears to be nothing more than a personal agenda to freely express gradification and indulgence in this lifestyle which blinds those participants of what this lifestyle will eventually produce in our society

As far as the injection of the religius aspect into this thread none of those arguing that position have addressed an important point I already raised, that not all individuals are born male/female. In order to validate what has essentially been inserted as Biblical claims I believe it is necessary for this point to be addressed in order to validate thier argument

Every person born has 1 of 2 organs ,you do the math,if there is a cross of genetic information in the genes or a chemical imbalance and abnormalities exist,it is not indication or a license to prove or allow that that individual is suppose to live out that particular lifestyle unless they are further encouraged and by peer pressure and immense influence led to believe this is normal and to be accepted behavior

 

[Jaymes]

In most countries you do have equality! Im not sure which country you are from? I am from the UK for example and Gays/Lesbians can have a civil partnership, adopt children, have their own children through surrogate mothers? You cant get more equal than that! Ok I admit some countries its illegal to be Gay - you get flogged in some and thrown in prison in others. But those countries dont even have equality for some of the things we have - women etc! so I think Gays/Lesbians have a lot of equality!

I take it you've never been to the US. It's still legal in many states--including mine--to fire someone simply for being gay or lesbian. Gay and lesbians still can't openly serve in the military. Gay men are blocked from giving blood if they've ever had gay sex, despite the fact there are groups more likely than them to have HIV... and they test the blood anyway. In 49 US states we still cannot marry.

This is far from equal. I don't even want to touch on transgender issues, because we don't have many of the scant protections gays and lesbians have.

 

[Jaymes]

That is absurd and has no merit ,unless you can provide some research,because what I have read points to the opposite.
There may be some similarities, but in the whole it is a very different world especially when the child understands what their peers have as hetrosexual parents that being a Mommy and daddy, that is a female mommy and a male daddy.

Dude, did you even look at my link? :sarcastic Or does it fall under that convenient category of "it contradicts me so it doesn't exist"?

Every person born has 1 of 2 organs

I assume this falls under that same category? Or have you just never heard of intersex individuals? What about androgen insensitive individuals? People with XXY, XYY, and XO genotypes?

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I take it you've never been to the US. It's still legal in many states--including mine--to fire someone simply for being gay or lesbian. Gay and lesbians still can't openly serve in the military. Gay men are blocked from giving blood if they've ever had gay sex, despite the fact there are groups more likely than them to have HIV... and they test the blood anyway. In 49 US states we still cannot marry.

This is far from equal. I don't even want to touch on transgender issues, because we don't have many of the scant protections gays and lesbians have.

I have been to the US actually several times... but its usually on holiday so I am never really looking up the laws on Gays as it doesnt affect me! I only need to know the laws about drinking at 21 etc etc.
Then in the US, Gays dont have equal rights then do they..... Im obviously very lucky to live in the UK where they have more rights! I can understand about the not giving blood as Gay men are far more likely to have HIV! This isnt a forum for transgender issues so you dont want to touch on it. I am actually ok with transgender! I do believe there are people out there who are women/men born in the body of the opposite sex - its scientific fact! something in the brain - cant remember what! but anyways thats a completely different topic!

 

[lilithu]

I can understand about the not giving blood as Gay men are far more likely to have HIV!

I actually do NOT understand this. It is my understanding that donated blood is automatically screened for HIV anyway, so why the need to exclude an entire class of people just because of the belief that they might be at higher risk? Ignoring for the moment what this says to gay men, just on a practical level we experience drastic shortages of blood on a regular basis and often have to buy from other countries to fulfill our needs. So it seems to me that this ban on gay men giving blood is not only discriminatory against gay men but morally irresponsible with respect to those who urgently need blood.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I actually do NOT understand this. It is my understanding that donated blood is automatically screened for HIV anyway, so why the need to exclude an entire class of people just because of the belief that they might be at higher risk? Ignoring for the moment what this says to gay men, just on a practical level we experience drastic shortages of blood on a regular basis and often have to buy from other countries to fulfill our needs. So it seems to me that this ban on gay men giving blood is not only discriminatory against gay men but morally irresponsible with respect to those who urgently need blood.

It also may be because they know some people may not want to recieve blood from gay men because of the risk of HIV screened or not screened - you know how the human brain works, especially with HIV. People are so scared of it! I mean most people think you can catch it from a small cut when you cant! as HIV dies once exposed to oxygen! Obviously you cant see where the blood has come from so its better to stop Gay men all together! I wouldnt mind recieving blood from a gay person, but I bet you that there are people out there who would! Unfortunately that is the world we live in - different opinions!

 

[Nanda]

It also may be because they know some people may not want to recieve blood from gay men because of the risk of HIV screened or not screened - you know how the human brain works, especially with HIV. People are so scared of it! I mean most people think you can catch it from a small cut when you cant! as HIV dies once exposed to oxygen! Obviously you cant see where the blood has come from so its better to stop Gay men all together! I wouldnt mind recieving blood from a gay person, but I bet you that there are people out there who would! Unfortunately that is the world we live in - different opinions!

That's ridiculous. They don't tell you who you're getting blood from. They don't even know themselves, once it's been taken and screened; it's just anonymous fluids. People don't get to be picky and choosey about where their blood comes from. Can you imagine? Think of a Klansman in desperate need of a transfusion turning his nose up at the blood that will save his life because it came from a black person. Unbelievable...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The fact that hetro's can't have kids,is just as unantural

So are women born with an XY chromosomes syndrome, which naturally happens, known as Swyer Syndrome, somehow un-natural since they are born with non-functioning gonads, which makes them infertile?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swyer_syndrome

 

[Pah]

Well, except when they come from biology.

(Never saw a man had any babies yet. )

I understand that male mice can produce in vitro eggs

The only secular reason I can think of is that the separation of church and state is being abused.

Bright-ness

 

[Nanda]

I understand that male mice can produce in vitro eggs

The only secular reason I can think of is that the separation of church and state is being abused.

Bright-ness

Since when do you have to go through a church to get married? I didn't. No one's trying to force the churches who don't want to perform marriage ceremonies for homosexual couples into doing it - there are plenty of willing churches who would like the option, not to mention JOP ceremonies.

 

[gmelrod]

I think that the government should only offer one piece of paper, a civil union, to all couples. Churches then can mary people or not as their doctrine allows. This way noone can complain that marriage is somehow being "denigrated." In the eyes of the law all people should be considered equal. If two rational beings are willing to make a commitmant to each other then the govenment should recognize it in as much as that commitment has legal ramifications. Marriage should be seen as a subset of the larget set civil unions. This way the whole issue becomes an internal one within the diffrent faiths.