Searching for one secular reason to ban gay marriage

[lilithu]

Since when do you have to go through a church to get married? I didn't. No one's trying to force the churches who don't want to perform marriage ceremonies for homosexual couples into doing it - there are plenty of willing churches who would like the option, not to mention JOP ceremonies.

That's not what Bright-ness was saying. He was saying that the only reason why same-sex marriage is a political issue is because some religious people are trying to impose their views of marriage on secular society.

 

[jamaesi]

It also may be because they know some people may not want to recieve blood from gay men because of the risk of HIV screened or not screened - you know how the human brain works, especially with HIV. People are so scared of it! I mean most people think you can catch it from a small cut when you cant! as HIV dies once exposed to oxygen! Obviously you cant see where the blood has come from so its better to stop Gay men all together! I wouldnt mind recieving blood from a gay person, but I bet you that there are people out there who would! Unfortunately that is the world we live in - different opinions!

PS- Black heterosexual women have the highest rates of HIV/AIDS. Not homosexuals.

Your blood donation argument just shot itself in the foot.

 

[Sunstone]

Prohibiting gay marriage does many wrongs, but one wrong that is not so often considered: It denies the rights of those religious people and institutions that actually want to marry gay couples.

 

[Nanda]

That's not what Bright-ness was saying. He was saying that the only reason why same-sex marriage is a political issue is because some religious people are trying to impose their views of marriage on secular society.

Sorry, it wasn't obvious or apparent from the post.

The only secular reason I can think of is that the separation of church and state is being abused.

Seemed to me like he was referring to the OP, namely, a secular reason to ban gay marriage.

 

[Prometheus]

I don't think it was mentioned to laws yet that lesbians have lower rates of HIV/AIDS than heterosexuals. If it's already been said then I'm not too observant.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It also may be because they know some people may not want to recieve blood from gay men because of the risk of HIV screened or not screened - you know how the human brain works, especially with HIV. People are so scared of it! I mean most people think you can catch it from a small cut when you cant! as HIV dies once exposed to oxygen!

(This is off topic, but I feel it's important to share)
The Red Cross and blood centers do a terrific job of screening blood donations.
As for catching it, you are wrong (I think I might not be clear as to what you mean on the small cut part though) . You can indeed cath HIV, and many other infections, through even a small cut. HIV is passed through bodily fluids, which include sexual fluids, blood (the blood itself is carriers oxygen), and saliva. The universal blood handling procedures mention the use of gloves, because finger tips and around the nails are a common place for open wounds that you don't know of. OSHA even requires gloves to be worn when you handle blood to reduce the chances of catching HIV incase the person that bleed is a carrier, and even has training videos about proper handling procedures. I believe the actual HIV virus can live for up to 2 days outside of the human body. Another import factor is you can be a carrier and not show any symptoms.
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/guide/hiv2?page=1
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/guide/hiv-aids-what-raises-risk
http://www.thebody.com/content/art6073.html
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/tc/Human-Immunodeficiency-Virus-HIV-Infection-Prevention
I recomend you read the articles in the above links. Gays are mentioned as a risk factor, but thier are also many more sexual contacts that are as well.

 

[lilithu]

That's ridiculous. They don't tell you who you're getting blood from. They don't even know themselves, once it's been taken and screened; it's just anonymous fluids. People don't get to be picky and choosey about where their blood comes from. Can you imagine? Think of a Klansman in desperate need of a transfusion turning his nose up at the blood that will save his life because it came from a black person. Unbelievable...

Reminds me of an episode of "All in the Family" where Archie gets a blood transfusion from a black man, and he has to come to terms with the fact that he has "black blood" flowing in his veins.

Man, they don't make television like that any more. And the few intelligent shows we have on tv get canceled because no one watches them. For example, "30 Rock" is on the chopping block.

 

[UnityNow101]

Good old Archie Bunker...I can never get enough of those old episodes. They truly do not make tv comedies like that anymore.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I don't think it was mentioned to laws yet that lesbians have lower rates of HIV/AIDS than heterosexuals. If it's already been said then I'm not too observant.

If you read the posts back, we were talking about Gay MEN!!! I know lesbian women have lower rates - we were not talking about them!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

(This is off topic, but I feel it's important to share)
The Red Cross and blood centers do a terrific job of screening blood donations.
As for catching it, you are wrong (I think I might not be clear as to what you mean on the small cut part though) . You can indeed cath HIV, and many other infections, through even a small cut. HIV is passed through bodily fluids, which include sexual fluids, blood (the blood itself is carriers oxygen), and saliva. The universal blood handling procedures mention the use of gloves, because finger tips and around the nails are a common place for open wounds that you don't know of. OSHA even requires gloves to be worn when you handle blood to reduce the chances of catching HIV incase the person that bleed is a carrier, and even has training videos about proper handling procedures. I believe the actual HIV virus can live for up to 2 days outside of the human body. Another import factor is you can be a carrier and not show any symptoms.
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/guide/hiv2?page=1
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/guide/hiv-aids-what-raises-risk
http://www.thebody.com/content/art6073.html
http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/tc/Human-Immunodeficiency-Virus-HIV-Infection-Prevention
I recomend you read the articles in the above links. Gays are mentioned as a risk factor, but thier are also many more sexual contacts that are as well.

Ok not all blood in the body is oxygenated! some is deoxygenated! HIV dies when it comes into contact with oxygen! I am a carer so have to keep taking courses - one of these was Infection Control! The tutor there explained to me that HIV cannot/very highly unlikely to be caught through small cuts! you would have to seriously open the wound to catch it! It is unlikely that someone trained in the area would be wrong - but hey! I am only repeating what I heard! and it does make sense to me!
About the being a carrier and not showing any symptoms - thats true! You cant tell who has got HIV and who hasnt! onlt they and their doctors would know!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

PS- Black heterosexual women have the highest rates of HIV/AIDS. Not homosexuals.

Your blood donation argument just shot itself in the foot.

True but your thinking about a different thing - I cant thing of the terminology, my brain is fried at the moment from too much revision

Black women do have the highest rates of HIV
Gay men have the highest ABILITY TO CONTRACT IT! and too pass it on through sexual intercourse! It is less likely for women (of any sexuality) to pass it on. It goes for heteresexual men too - men are more likely to pass the virus on!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

That's ridiculous. They don't tell you who you're getting blood from. They don't even know themselves, once it's been taken and screened; it's just anonymous fluids. People don't get to be picky and choosey about where their blood comes from. Can you imagine? Think of a Klansman in desperate need of a transfusion turning his nose up at the blood that will save his life because it came from a black person. Unbelievable...

Who was saying they tell you where the blood comes from? Im not saying I am like that, I am just saying some people are (unfortunately).

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Noone ever answered one of my questions as to why this thread was started in the first place? and I think it seems to have gone of topic (prob my fault) and we seem to be arguing Gays/Lesbians full stop rather than the marriage!!!

In case your wondering, Im not sure what my views are on Gays/lesbians are. Im just throwing ideas out. I think the problem is (and I dont mean to insult here.) I find it weird! I dont find it wrong, Its just not something the world is used to yet! In a couple of generations, with people who have been more brought up with it, it will be much more accepted as it will be considered the "norm".

 

[lilithu]

Im just throwing ideas out. I think the problem is (and I dont mean to insult here.) I find it weird! I dont find it wrong, Its just not something the world is used to yet! In a couple of generations, with people who have been more brought up with it, it will be much more accepted as it will be considered the "norm".

I understand that you think it's weird, and that's ok. But you can't expect BGLT to wait a couple of generations for people to get used to them. This is their life too.

And btw, when I was a kid I thought it was weird too. I don't anymore. It doesn't take generations. All it takes is being willing to put one's socially conditioned reactions aside and talk to people as people.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I understand that you think it's weird, and that's ok. But you can't expect BGLT to wait a couple of generations for people to get used to them. This is their life too.

And btw, when I was a kid I thought it was weird too. I don't anymore. It doesn't take generations. All it takes is being willing to put one's socially conditioned reactions aside and talk to people as people.

hmmm, BGLT?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

It's shorthand for (I believe) bi-sexuals, gays, lesbians and transgenders.

 

[fantome profane]

hmmm, BGLT?

It’s a new kind of gourmet sandwich – bacon, guacamole, lettuce and tomato.:drool: It may seem a little bit weird at first, but give it a chance. It’s not going to hurt anyone. :eat:

 

[Truth_Faith13]

It’s a new kind of gourmet sandwich – bacon, guacamole, lettuce and tomato.:drool: It may seem a little bit weird at first, but give it a chance. It’s not going to hurt anyone. :eat:

Love it!!!!

 

[Mike182]

I understand that you think it's weird, and that's ok. But you can't expect BGLT to wait a couple of generations for people to get used to them. This is their life too.

And btw, when I was a kid I thought it was weird too. I don't anymore. It doesn't take generations. All it takes is being willing to put one's socially conditioned reactions aside and talk to people as people.

hey, i went through a stage of hating gay people when i was 12-13... i was just young, angry and confused.

True but your thinking about a different thing - I cant thing of the terminology, my brain is fried at the moment from too much revision

Black women do have the highest rates of HIV
Gay men have the highest ABILITY TO CONTRACT IT! and too pass it on through sexual intercourse! It is less likely for women (of any sexuality) to pass it on. It goes for heteresexual men too - men are more likely to pass the virus on!

i suspect that this is true... however, at the time when the legislation to ban gay men from donating blood came through, socially speaking HIV/Aids was the gay man's disease. social views have moved on, along with a better understanding of the disease, and better understanding of other STDs. it's time the legislation around that old social view was changed to equal todays social understanding. but that is for a separate debate altogether.

 

[lilithu]

hmmm, BGLT?

Sorry. BGLT stands for Bisexual, Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered. Sometimes Queer is included as well so you might see BGLTQ. And sometimes people change the order around, so you'll often see GLBT.

Since these groups face many of the same issues: hatred, discrimination, etc, we often talk about the BGLT communities as a group. We say BGLT because when people just keep saying "gay" we tend to forget lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered folks. And "homosexual" leaves out bisexuals and transgendered. Sometimes we say "queer" to encompass all, but not everyone is comfortable with that word, so I tend to not use it unless I know the person.

As for Bacon, Guacamole, Lettuce and Tomato: hon we've been serving that up in California for decades. It ain't nothin' new to us.